Explosive moves and a bad back...

[William S.]

Hello,

I have a bad back but I am interested in training with explosive movements such as power cleans, clean and jerks, and snatches. I believe that these lifts are the best ways to build power.

However, I have a bad back and I am wary of injuring it again. Right now the only methods I use are super-slow, compound moves, mostly bodyweight in nature.

I suppose my question is should I even bother with these lifts? Are these lifts that I should try on my own without supervision?

Thank you,
Will

Hi Will,

I am training on the Oly lifts.

I do believe some supervision is good in learning correct technique. The snatch is an unbelievably difficult move in my opinion. They all are for that matter.

With correct form, your back should be fine. I'd be more concerned about your shoulders as a newbie as shoulder flexibility is very important. Assess your shoulder flexibility and if they are tight, work on improving their range of motion before starting off doing any snatch work. Take a light pole and hold in in front of your trunk with a wide grip and straight arms. Now keeping those arms straight, raise the pole over your head and behind your back until the pole touches your butt, then return. That is one rep. If that is difficult for you to do, then you have tight shoulders and I'd work that drill, building up to at least 3 sets of 10 reps before proceeding further with snatch work.

My back feels really good right now. It does get a good workout with a clean workout so you'll just have to be cautious if you decide to proceed.

I think a great place to start is by watching video after video, and reading alot. I personally like Tommy Kono's book, "Weightlifting, Olympic Style", which you can order at his website. His website is listed in the interview article I did of him appearing in the Fall 2007 Newsletter. Then, using a light pole, work the lifts focusing on correct technique.

These are just some of my early morning Sunday thoughts. Have a great day!

[William S.]

Thanks, pierini. I appreciate the advice. BTW, how would one go about assessing one's shoulder's flexibility? Just wondering.

Best in training,
Will

In my opinion, being able to perform the light pole exercise I described for 3 sets of 10 reps is one assessment. Arms must remain straight and elbows locked.

Can you get in the position of this photo and hold it:

http://blazers.belhaven.edu/BlazerPo...uepicks004.jpg

That is what I mean by shoulder flexibility.

Can you perform behind-the-neck pullups or presses, or overhead squats? That is the type of shoulder flexibility needed.

[William S.]

Man, I have never tried those moves before. I suppose I should, lol. But I have heard that "behind the neck" moves are bad for one's shoulders. Is this true, or just another load of BS?

[CF-OC_gal]

I agree completely with Mr. P that "Shoulder Dislocates" are an excellent O-lift warmup. We do them religiously. Half way down this page is a demonstration and description on how to do them.

If you can't do them all the way then try grabbing the bar wider. If they are somewhat easy, bring your hands in to a more narrow grip. You can also do them using bands and keeping tension on the stretch while moving from front to back.

My personal instinct would be to get some personal coaching from an O-lift experienced trainer if I had back issues, not just just any generally certified trainer.

I'll let the experts answer that question, but with flexibility shoulders you should not have a problem.

[William S.]

This is the reason why I love this forum. Thanks for the advice.:

[CF-OC_gal]

Originally Posted by William S.

I have heard that "behind the neck" moves are bad for one's shoulders. Is this true, or just another load of BS?

I've asked fairly knowledgeable gym staff trainers that and the answer I got was as you get older it becomes more of a risk for your back. I don't know if that was a CYA answer or if some research has been done. When I did bodybuilding style training before, lots of movements were done behind the neck, and even promoted in training books. Now it's out of vogue.

Since switching to functional and strength style training there are no really heavy behind the neck exercises but things like snatch balance are behind the neck movements.

[William S.]

I think that Crossfit is really interesting. What little I know of it, an dI really so only know a little, it reminds me of Ross Enamait's material (Never Gymless, Infinite Intensity, etc.). I was a little surprised to see moves like GH sit ups advocated. Again, I have read a lot of articles denouncing this move as "bad for your back." Oh well. It seems to work for the Crossfit crowd.

[CF-OC_gal]

What exactly constitutes a "bad back" for you? Is it just a weak spot or have you had an injury of some kind?

[William S.]

It is an injury. It is commonly referred to as a "bad back." Basically I threw it out by looking over my shoulder and turning at the same time. Any time I see someone one hyperextend on any exercise, like a deadlift or the air squat as it is demonstrated on the Crossfit website I can't help but cringe. On a discomfort scale of 1 to 6 it is definitely a "1", but "1" is too much in my opinion.

My 2 cents for what its worth:

Both pierini and Brat have given you some good advice. One more piece that I can add: Don't "ego" lift. As they mentioned, use a pole or length of PVC pipe to learn the lifts. Then when you decide to start using weights, start with an empty bar (the lightest one possible) and add weight gradually. And by gradually I mean 2 1/2 to 5 pounds every three weeks or so. This will give your body time to adjust and build strength in your weakest areas. Too many people forget about their weakest link and eventually pay the price with injuries. Because you already know you have problems with your back, take your time and build your foundation slowly.

[tim_mcf]

Kettlebell (or dumbell) swings can be good for rehabilitating a bad back.

[Dan C]

“Bad back” is definitely a very general term used to describe a lot of things. I don’t believe that one instance/injury dooms you to the fate of a “bad back” for the rest of your life. I honestly think most peoples back problems are a result of the musculature just being too weak to handle their activities of daily living.

Having said that, I do think that one should be very cautious when training the quick lifts, especially in the presence of back problems. In fact, you might be better off NOT training those lifts at all! There are other ways to build “power” that are just as effective and much safer.

You can build power by moving a heavier weight at the same speed, it doesn’t have be a greater speed for increased force production.