Firehawk

[luke.w]

slamming????? gimmie a break.

I guess know one else can ever show firhawk some tough love except the big boys.


I know exacty why you used the boards and shirt firehawk, fact is you need a more raw base, and you are very unbalenced strengthwise, (oh gee did I just slam you????????)

and I don't think I'm bullet proof, I've been hurt for 6-months before.

[Firehawk]

What is unbalanced about my strength base? I don't mind constructive criticism but that, you are not giving. You don't understand sh*t about equipment, but if you want to talk about raw lifting then I'll have a conversation about it.

You can never have a strong enough base anyway. Oh please tell me why I used the boards and shirt.

I can take the constructive criticism but learn how to present it in a way that doesn't make the person you are giving it to defensive.

[.V.]

Edited to add a sentence and double posted. Sorry. If a mod wants to delete this one, fell free.

[.V.]

Oh boy. I don't even want to get in on this one. But I'm going to anyway. Gear is for safety and protection. Yeah sure, in some lifts it does give more weight. However, the lifter is exerting the same energy and the same amount of strength in or out of the gear. The gear is just holding the body together so it doesn't fall apart in the lift.

The type of hernia Firehawk got was most likely from his bench position than from the shirt. The position that spreads the exertion more evenly over the entire body instead of keeping it all on the chest and anterior of the shoulder. Guess what? If the weakness in the muscle wall was there already - it would have eventually torn anyway, whatever he was lifting - even bending over to pick something from the floor could have done it. If he wasn't a lifter, he would have probably done it much sooner - as the even bigger fatter guy he would have became than he was when he started. The slimmer, stronger, fitter guy he is now IS less liikely to get injured. Hernias happen.

About the heart thing, that is VERY common. Less common among lifters or people involved in any kind of fitness and more common among those that sit on their butts all day long doing nothing.

He had a conduction defect. It is now repaired. Could it return? Sure it could, but is unlikely. Could I get one tomorrow? Yep, already have one, but a different kind. Mine is a right bundle branch block. His happened to be a poorly functioning SA node so the other parts of the atrium would take over and start beating too fast.

Cardiac conduction defects happen, they have nothing to do with diet, nutrition, lifting, not lifting, running, not running...they just happen. They aren't like clogged arteries leading to heart attack - which are directly related to our lifestyle.

I hope your intentions were well intended, but you are way off base here.

Come on guys. Let's keep the forum friendly and on track with good information. If we don't have anything kind to say, let's just not say it. It's not a place to be all about, "I'm right, you are wrong". Let's not make it into one.

[luke.w]

for starters on your old journal not long before your "retirement" of raw comps. you stated how your back felt like it was going to snap military pressing a mere 135lbs beltless so you quickly added the belt, it's a weakness.

things like the above I've been posting seriuosly about over a year now, where have ya been?????

Your presses are way off from your bench, and just cause you did a 425 pin press once before don't mean diddly, and your right you never have enough raw strength, theres always more to be gained, years, and years of it.


you put the shirt on eithier cause you (you said you were tired) to get your lifts (the shirt offers "support" anywhere in the lift, your own words), or you were getting a feel of it with the boards also, since you haven't trained with the shirt for awhile. but really cause someone in your gym gave it to you to try out.

[luke.w]

and bottom line you trained while being tired which I feel is okay because being tired is telling your body something by not getting your lifts, however running and getting the support gear to mask this only builds up every single time you do this.

I've been over this stuff before, and even told you something along time ago, but since I'm not a world record holder, I was told I'm wrong, I'm up Dans ass ect,ect,.

[Dan C]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

If you didn't start this thread to slam me, why did luke just do it? Are you guys taking the "you slam him but i'll try to be PC so that he won't think anything"? If you really didn't, that's mighty nice of you but I am skeptical. We don't get along, haven't since you came here and there's no other reason for me to believe you have another agenda in mind.

But in an unbias dialog, I will try to state what I feel about the subject on gear to the best of my ability. Sometimes i'm not the most tactful but I will try (this is my disclaimer ).

Gear is supposed to protect you at your most vulnerable point. The only way for you to understand this is to train in it for awhile and attempt max weights. It does give you protection and that's it's job. A benefit is moving more weight. It generally turns the bench and squat into partial lifts in my opinion, aside from learning the technique of course.

Even though you regularly use questionable language to take personal shots at me (and I regularly provoke such responses), I don't dislike you, I don't want to see you injured, and I didn't start this thread to slam you. To be honest, I kinda cringed at Luke's post, figuring that his comments would get you in an uproar and ultimately lead to the thread getting locked. (I didn't even anticipate it provoking yet another "can't we all just get along" post from Welch - a post that I did not bother reading, I might add.)

I started this thread to take an objective look at the risk benefit ratio of the sport of geared powerlifting, as well as the mentality behind the lifters. Your recent injury just happened to initiate it.

I don't have time right now to comment further, but let me just say that I do not buy into the "gear is supposed to protect you" argument, and I do not believe that lifting weights is dangerous activity. Injuries are not, and should not be, "nature of the beast" in strength training.

[Firehawk]

No, actually it was an overhead military press while standing and I felt that way because i looked up and not forward. A guy who had done previous olympic training caught that mistake and corrected me. And, I don't think I added the belt, because I don't think I had it with me, but I could be mistaken. That was awhile ago.

Second, I don't really have alot of respect for you honestly Luke. I used to when you were here at first, but all you do is put people down and you make yourself look arrogant. I'm just stating how it seems. If you don't think you do that, then whatever. You took the first chance you could to try to make some type of example out of me because I've had a heart surgery and a hernia surgery, neither of which you could speciflcaly say were the direct cause of equipment. How am I supposed to take your response? You could try to argue the hernia one but it's a losing battle since I hadn't even begun to lower the weight yet. The heart thing happened to me when i was just starting to get in to lifting, well before I ever hooked up with any powerlifters.

Third, what press is way off from my bench? I have never fully shirted benched 365. I shirt benched 350 though and tried 400 twice that same day (no hernia that day, sorry) and didn't get it, but it was fun. That was also with a different shirt, also when I was at the end of a "bulk cycle" or, in better terms, eating too much. At the time i benched 350 with a shirt, my raw bench was 260. I had it up to 285 at my best. I fail to see though where there's an imbalance.

And in regard to the shirt, i had completed the raw work for the day. I thought it would be fun to get into the shirt. Someone had one there that fit me, didn't hold a gun to my head when I said I would try it out. I didn't use the shirt in order to "get my lifts". I had no intention of using a shirt that day. I still think you believe powerlifters use a shirt but make it sound like it's raw. I think that's what you believe but it's not.

The shirt keeps you in line and when you are at your chest, gives you a spring off your chest. It adds support at the top but not support in the sense that it does any work for you. It does help keep your arms lined up somewhat properly, but it's still easy to dump the weight or drop it toward your face. This is where Technique comes in.

That day i was using boards to try to get my lockout stronger. This is common sense. I had no goal in mind on what kind of weight I could get with the shirt that day. All shirts are different. They all have different grooves in them. One shirt does not fit all.

On a similar note, I am definitely planning to work on my strength base anyway. I feel I lack muscle endurance and I am hoping I can come back stronger this time, but like anything, will take time.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by Dan C

Even though you regularly use questionable language to take personal shots at me (and I regularly provoke such responses), I don't dislike you, I don't want to see you injured, and I didn't start this thread to slam you. To be honest, I kinda cringed at Luke's post, figuring that his comments would get you in an uproar and ultimately lead to the thread getting locked. (I didn't even anticipate it provoking yet another "can't we all just get along" post from Welch - a post that I did not bother reading, I might add.)

I started this thread to take an objective look at the risk benefit ratio of the sport of geared powerlifting, as well as the mentality behind the lifters. Your recent injury just happened to initiate it.

I don't have time right now to comment further, but let me just say that I do not buy into the "gear is supposed to protect you" argument, and I do not believe that lifting weights is dangerous activity. Injuries are not, and should not be, "nature of the beast" in strength training.

Presonal shots at you were not unwarranted, and I did see your final comment before they deleted the thread so don't try to come off as a saint.

Second, I'm not really in an uproar about it. Although, from the start i was thinking on the defensive because what perfect timing to bring up my injury after a heated argument in the previously locked thread.

And third, the equipment DOES protect you at your most vulnerable, whether you want to believe it or not. It's just a side affect that you get more weight out of it. I think initially this was the idea but then when people saw "oh wow, you can get tons of weight using this material and that material", the protection no longer became the primary concern. That's my opinion on it.

I have no problem talking about this civily but lets keep the condescending sh*t to a minimum and have a real discussion about it. And if you want my views about it, my honest views, I am more than happy to tell you. BUt, I really wish you were educated about equipment because sometimes things you say, and Luke, show that you guys really don't know anything about it. I think if you worked up to a max attempt in a tight squat suit, you'd get some instant respect for it. You may not like it, or agree with it not being dangerous or whatever, but at least you'd respect it.

PS. You shoudl read Welch's post. He put alot of good facts in his post about the reasons for both my heart surgery and the hernia. It was only his last statement that he said "cant we all just get along?" lol

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by luke.w

and bottom line you trained while being tired which I feel is okay because being tired is telling your body something by not getting your lifts, however running and getting the support gear to mask this only builds up every single time you do this.

I've been over this stuff before, and even told you something along time ago, but since I'm not a world record holder, I was told I'm wrong, I'm up Dans ass ect,ect,.

And as I stated alerady (which you are probably reading now), i didn't go to the equipment that day to hit more weight, in the sense that I just HAD to get 365 that day or something. And, I agree, I should have just stopped. I was tired and should have not trained in it. Nevertheless, it was bound to happen anyway.

[Maxgain]

Just want to say best of luck with the recovery and a safe return to training!

[Firehawk]

Thanks Max.

[Bearbait]

I hope you have a speedy recovery Firehawk. I'm still nursing a sore shoulder but getting back up there. I'm going to do my super yoke squats with 3" rom while wearing my speedo now and no Luke and Dan you can't have any pictures.

[Firehawk]

Powerlifters in the house.

[luke.w]

firehawk I'm sadden that you don't respect me, and I'd like to say that I never once thought your heart problem was related to any of this.

I was pretty pissed when I found out you had hernia and the senerio in when it accurred, I'll say that I do not like what goes on in powerlifting, I like powerlifting, but I'm upset by whats happening, and I don't agree with your attuitude of "it will happen sooner or later" how could you possiblliy knopw that?

I may have a problem with how I talk on the net, but I don't believe in bluffing people and saying "good job" when things don't look great, if I see a problem I like to address it, too many people push other people, and people get hurt too much.

To me powerlifting,physical culture is about being stronger and proving the odds wrong.

in reguards lately the internet has been a problem for me, I get caught up in these threads and it affects my workouts, and job, I'm getting a very busy position at work now, and my biggest mistake is getting too involved here, I have a problem, it's interfereing in my life too much, I'm not a trainer and frankly I enjoy my 10-hour workday and waking up and working, it's really great for training.

I won't ask to be banned, I'd like some self control and say I won't be posting for at least a year, it's done!!!!!!!!!! finally!!!!!!!