Homemade Video Clips - Page 5

DarkLord · 28-Oct-05, 04:58 PM

Well Luke and Dan, you lift very heavy but... I must say that your form still needs a teeny bit of adjustment. I don't blame you for your form. There a lots of people who have never been taught properly. That first clip that Firehawk posted was very similar as well. Hell I'm still learning for myself and will do so when I become a fitness instructor. It's just the bend in the knees and the arc in your back that worries me and don't want to see you in doc. I'm doing 90-100kg deadlifts ( heaviest) at the moment and I'm new to deadlifting for a long time now. Never sacrifice your spinal column for your ego, it's not worth it. A nice straight back with a good bend in the knees.

I'm sure I'll be run down for saying this now.

gcs118 · 28-Oct-05, 05:01 PM

I think Dave, Luke, and Dan know what they're doing. If their form isn't 100% perfect, let's see how your form is when you get up to pulling 400-500 lbs. It's just not possible to keep absolute perfect form at heavier weights, and from what I can tell, their form is pretty damn good.

**threenorns** · 28-Oct-05, 05:52 PM

absolutely: at heavier weights, the spine will straighten out or even bow slightly - that's when hip flexibility and lower back strength come into it.

as a side note, DL, you sound pretty patronizing. not good unless you can outperform Dan and Luke.

DaRkAnGel · 28-Oct-05, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by threenorns

absolutely: at heavier weights, the spine will straighten out or even bow slightly - that's when hip flexibility and lower back strength come into it.

as a side note, DL, you sound pretty patronizing. not good unless you can outperform Dan and Luke.

As another side note, 100 kg is powerclean weight.

DarkLord · 29-Oct-05, 02:47 AM

You've all totally misunderstood me. I'm not runnning people down, just looking for good technique. If the weight is too heavy, simply don't lift it. The idea is to build up until you can lift that weight for good form. If I suddenly tried lifting 120kg my spine would round slightly simply becuase I haven't used that enourmous amount of weight. Don't take it personally.

**.V.** · 29-Oct-05, 06:29 AM

DL, I totally see what you are saying. It is somewhat correct (for you or me), but not entirely (and certainly not for them). No, there is no need to get sloppy because the weights are heavy. But what you are missing is that those of us who are weaker than them have to use perfect form - or beyond perfect form, bending the knees more, arching the back more - that is how we prevent injury. The form these guys are using is actually good form - for them. They have the back for it - where guys like you and I don't - YET. Don't forget, deadlifting is BACK training - well whole body training, but it is mostly for the back. To be able to even step up to the bar and miss a rep at these weights requires a very strong back - if they don't use some back - how else would it get that strong. BTW, not a run down - just an explanation in the difference in form - and the reason for it. Keep going, keep your form as good as you can, and when you get strong enough to step up to the weights they are using you'll see. I hope someday to be able to step up to a bar loaded the way those guys are using. My back will have to get one hell of a lot stronger though.

DarkLord · 29-Oct-05, 07:59 AM

I would say I could go with that Welch, yeh. I will definately find out for myself properly when I'm a fitness instructor one day. We are all learning everyday.

**threenorns** · 29-Oct-05, 09:05 AM

don't forget, too, that as a "fitness" instructor, you're not likely to be dealing with the class Luke and Dan are in, so yes, perfect form, perfect form, perfect form. the highly-experienced ones will be looking for a powerlifting or strongman coach, who will have different rules.

luke.w · 30-Oct-05, 03:08 PM

I did finally see the the videos, and everything looks pretty good to me, the only thing thats alittle "skecty" was my 490 rack pull my upper back bows alot on that, because I can't get any legs into it and it's all back at the start until I can get my hips in the lift, but this is where my specialized "core" training gives me the advantage over anyone else, my back is used to supporting over 800 on a weekly basis.

as for the other deadlifts, I'm using alot of legs and lower body on those lifts, my lowerback isn't stressed much at all on these, I use more upper back.

I still to this day and always will be working to improve my form, that 410 dead was simple, I can pull that everyday, it would not make sense to train lighter, remeber I have 6 strongman comps under my belt, the last 2 I did were probaily the heavest in the country for an am. at my size, and I placed high in them, my form on the 400's will look better when I'm deadliting 500

: and my goal is to hit 500 with more in the tank, and once I do this I'll practice "flat back" pulls in the 400's, if something dosen't feel right, I'll know it, thats what experiance does for you, everything feels right now, and the 2006 strongman season is approching and the weights will be heavier so I need to be ready, and I wouldn't give this up, I love this stuff too much, hell I once competed with an injury and after the comp. my injury was healed, go figure!!!

if you think those vids were dangerous than you don't even want to see us walking with 250+ in ea. arm, or 700-800 on our backs, look into the history of great lifters and you'll see guys like Bob Peoples who at 39years old at 185lb bodyweight pulled 720 (and rounded his back) at 50years of age he was still deadlifting 600, it was his smart training that kept him in the game.

You yourself once stated you wanted to look like the "strongest men" if thats still true for you than you gotta lift big weights, form should always be important, but in order to achieve this you still have to push yourself and try to work beyond your limits, but do it smart.

**Firehawk** · 31-Oct-05, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLord

You've all totally misunderstood me. I'm not runnning people down, just looking for good technique. If the weight is too heavy, simply don't lift it. The idea is to build up until you can lift that weight for good form. If I suddenly tried lifting 120kg my spine would round slightly simply becuase I haven't used that enourmous amount of weight. Don't take it personally.

At maximal amounts of weight your form is not going to be 100%, and yes, injuries do happen, it's part of the game. Obviously you want to have the best form you can, but you still have to push it.

If you keep that mentality DarkLord, it's going to hold you back. There's a difference between loose form and bad form.

Dan C · 31-Oct-05, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLord

Well Luke and Dan, you lift very heavy but... I must say that your form still needs a teeny bit of adjustment. I don't blame you for your form. There a lots of people who have never been taught properly. That first clip that Firehawk posted was very similar as well. Hell I'm still learning for myself and will do so when I become a fitness instructor. It's just the bend in the knees and the arc in your back that worries me and don't want to see you in doc. I'm doing 90-100kg deadlifts ( heaviest) at the moment and I'm new to deadlifting for a long time now. Never sacrifice your spinal column for your ego, it's not worth it. A nice straight back with a good bend in the knees.

I'm sure I'll be run down for saying this now.

I hear what you're saying, and while I was a little suprised to see how much my back did bend during those deadlifts, rest assured that it was well within my capabilities. I'm normally able to lay my palms on the ground without bending my knees - flexibility is not an issue for me.

Another thing to consider is that many forms of lifting REQUIRE a rounded back. I'd say most 'lifts' you do in real life fall into this catagory. Things like moving furnature do not allow for the luxury of strait back lifting, and if you've ever tried to lift an atlas stone, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

This was written by a strength coach and friend of mine, Dave Lemanczyk. He offers the best explanation of rounded back lifting I've heard.

"In carrying heavy awkward objects there is a general rule that applies to everyone. Our initial appraoch on the object is with pure instinct. I call this grip the "carry grip". We naturally will position ourselves so we can lift the object in a path that we estimate will be most efficient.

Our back is definitely going to be rounded during this lift. Our back will naturally round when we pick up anything. It is our natural response and the way we move instinctually. You know that in order to pick up this object, you have to get as close to it as possible without making yourself vulnerable to failure. Think about that for moment and now think about everything that "experts" in the fitness field recommend regarding round back lifting........

Do you think it would make sense to train with a rounded back?

Do you pick objects up with a perfectly straight back like the recommeded exercises or do you round your back?

Could there be a benefit to training with a rounded back through a progressive overload model of training?"

luke.w · 31-Oct-05, 08:45 AM

I think rounded back lifting can be dangerous for the "average joe" in the long run, because they don't train to lift this way, thats why most people end up screwing their backs up, also when your trained (like us) you learn to use other muscles like the legs and hips.

I've done much reading on the history of the "irongame" I've noticed oldschool lifters used the rounded back more, and it wasn't until a certain point that men in the olyimpic lifting fiqured out that a flat back gives you more power (more weight can be pulled) in the "clean exercises" When I first started these "quick lifts" my back was rounded and I lost power in the second pull, once my back stayed more flat (still rounds a tad) my power increased, so this is one reason why oly. coaches preech "flat back" I have a vid of future world champs. in the making from China, they are 14-18 year olds and they doing very heavy deadlifts (and rounding their backs slightly) they getting stronger by doing these heavy deads and are being groomed!!!

**threenorns** · 31-Oct-05, 08:47 AM

also to consider is that the average joe is off-balance - his abs are generally weaker than his back, so his back is already overloaded just from normal daily activities. add a heavy box to be picked up and it's too much for his back to handle.

**Firehawk** · 31-Oct-05, 09:16 AM

It's that line of thinking that people are afraid to strength train and never reach their potential (not that i'm getting on DarkLord, because it's a common way of thinking). You HAVE to push it to grow and to get stronger, simple as that. If you continue to lift weights that are completely 100% safe, then where is the signal to your body that you require adaption? Because if your body doesn't feel it needs to adapt then it's not going to.

**Firehawk** · 05-Nov-05, 11:54 AM

Deadlift 315 x 10 in 35 seconds.

http://media.putfile.com/Deadlift-315-x-10

It's not exactly touch and go, i was setting the entire weight down then going immediately rather than resetting my feet every time which is what i do.

This was after i attempted 495 and missed it. Was very mad at myself so i made myself do some extra work

. This wasn't to failure, failure woulda been somewhere between 15-20 reps.