Looking to evolve some more

[.V.]

As you PL's know I'm changing my lifting routines just a little - mostly by adding heavier singles on the big 3 before my regular workout on that day. So far, I'm improving some.

Now here is another question. Since I train in the 3 sets of 4-6 reps manner, would it be useful to try 6 sets of 3 reps after my singles? I've been doing what I do now with only minor changes for quite some time now - and am happy with the results, but want to be happier with more results. The weight is getting heavy enough now that my grip just gives out around 5 or 6 reps - today that almost led to an injury.

Don't suggest straps - my grip needs to get stronger and learn to keep up with the rest of me.

I'm keeping my current schedule, just wanting to tweak it some more.

This is it
Legs
Arms
Shoulders
Back
Chest/Abs/Grip

Remember my gym is just a 10x20 metal building with a bench, 3 standard bars, 2 standard adjustable dumbells, a lat tower, and 402 lb of assorted plates. Oh, and that silly a$$ machine that my wife insisted that we buy still sits out on the back porch. It makes a nice place to hang my towel, set my notebook, and it holds my water bottle too while I do pullups on back day.

My thinking is like this:
On leg day do 4-6 squat singles followed by 6 sets of 3 squats. I don't know if I want to do 6x3 on SLDL or just keep them like they are. So far 3x6 on calf raises are letting me get stronger every week.

Arm day - probably stay the same but might change to 6x3 if that will help me get stronger. Sorry PL guys - I really like direct arm work and don't want to give it up. Besides they look pretty small and pitiful in photographs.

Shoulder day - probably stay the same - not sure yet, may change to 6x3 if it would make me stronger.

Back day - DL singles (increase weight when I can do 6). 6x3 DL sets with less weight than the singles - add weight when I add weight to singles. BOR - 6x3. Pullups - keep doing body weight like I've been doing lately - seems to be still working.

Chest day - Flat BP singles, then 6x3 sets - same plan as DL. Then 6x3 for inclines and declines. I only seem to get pinned on these on rep 5 or 6. Seems like I should be doing less reps and more weight to get stronger.

Abs will stay the same - shoot for 3x10, when I get it raise the weight for crunches and kneeling cable crunches.

Grip will just be static hold with BB and light farmer's walk with DB's.
When I can do 3 holds for 10 full seconds - raise the weight. FW - try to increase a couple of lb each week.

Gosh that was long and wordy.

Ideas? Good/bad/stupid?

[luke.w]

My comment is on the 6x3 sets after singles, that sounds like a bit too much in 1-day, I'd think you'd get much more productive if you did a choice of several things:

eithier do 6x3 1-week, singles the next week, keep switching everyweek

6x3 for several weeks, singles for several weeks, switch every few weeks

work-up to 10-singles then add weight, start with 4-6 singles again and work up to 10-singles. (this one could take a few weeks to get to 10-singles)

[.V.]

So am I correct in thinking that 6 sets of 3 could be more effective than 3 sets of 4-6? If so, would this apply to everything or just the squat, bench, and DL.

And you are saying that doing the singles workout should be on it's own day without doing any sets following it? What about the days when I have increased the weight and can only get 3 or 4? That seems like not enough volume to make me get bigger or stronger.

So many questions because although I've been training consistantly for almost two years now, I've only been training effectively for less than one year.

Today is chest day, I'm about to do some eating then hit the gym - I'll stick to my plan until I actually understand what I need to do to make it better.

[grambo]

The 6x3 rep range would obviously allow you to go heavier than a 3x4-6. With that said, a 6x3 would be a complete workout for a given exercise. Doing singles aftwards would be overkill.

[luke.w]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

And you are saying that doing the singles workout should be on it's own day without doing any sets following it? What about the days when I have increased the weight and can only get 3 or 4? That seems like not enough volume to make me get bigger or stronger.
.

if your training the lifts every single week you'll be fine, you don't want too much every single week, if the 3 0r 4 singles are tough than you'll get bigger and stronger, as long as you do a little more the following week.
If you want to evolve even more you can build blocks and use boards and always do sets of them (deads of blocks, squats off blocks(box squats), board presses) after your full range movements or switch them every other week, those will get ya more bigger and stronger.
And there's also speed work, thats lighter weights for more reps.

Firehawk has a good plan when he fits that stuff and other stuff in his routine.

[Firehawk]

Well here's my advice, take it or leave it:

THe post Luke made responding to whether or not it was good to do singles after a 6 x 3 routine was right on the money. I'd recommend you do 6 x 3 starting with weight you can easily do on the first week and going up 10 lbs until you can't go up 10 and then go up 5 from there until you plateau.

The post Grambo made about singles being overkill after 6 x 3 was also right on the money.


On the deadlifts, 6 x 3 is alot of volume. Better off with a 3 x 3 or what ive been doing and seeing awesome results, is pulling singles all the way up to a max, then the next week training my weakness, and then the following pulling singles again. I went through the 400s in a matter of like 8 weeks time doing this. It just worked wonders for me.

On squats, if you want to get stronger, then on the first week I'd warm up, then work your way up doing doubles and adding 20 lbs, until you can't do a double, then do singles until you max. Do that for a couple weeks and see how your legs respond.

A very important note to be made is that doing bench 6 x 3 does not mean do all your other exercises on that day in 6 x 3. Only the bench press gets done 6 x 3. Whatever you do after that, do sets of 6-8 heavy for tricep work.

Just my .02.

[.V.]

Dropping the volume to get more weight seems like it's getting complicated.

Thanks for the advice you guys. I guess what I've been doing is just too much then. Too bad, because it's working. I just had the best chest workout EVER. But, since it seems that doing less reps is more effective, I'll adjust according to what you say.

So on deadlift, just go heavier than now and do 3x3 instead of singles. Should I alternate singles and 3x3 from week to week?

On chest day, I only do bench pressing exercises...my tris get worked on arm day. I guess I'll just keep the higher volume for arms. What about shoulders? Keep my current volume or lower it and go for the weight?

[Firehawk]

If what you are doing is working, then don't change a thing. Wait until progress slows and then try changing to whatever I suggested or someone else suggested.

I feel you are better off not alternating between singles and 3x3 each week. I think you are better off doing one or the other over a 6 week period. Your body needs consistency to adapt. Just my opinion.

I don't know what your shoulder volume is.

[Firehawk]

Andy I'll be honest with you. I honestly think doing 5 days of heavy ass training like the type of training I recommended is going to kill you. It may or may not, but I think it will. When you train really really heavy, about 4 days is the maximum amount of days youwant to be training. In fact, most people can't handle more than 3 days. Just my opnion. Your body needs the time to recover. I thank God for my off days lol.

My routine is 2 bench days and 2 leg days, set up like this:

Sunday - Heavy Bench, HEavy Tris, Light SHoulders (get blood in them), Abs
Tuesday - Heavy Upper Back, Rack Pulls, Lower Posterior work, Abs
Wednesday - Speed Bench, HEavy SHoulders, Abs
Saturday - Heavy Squat, Light Deads (I alternate between heavy squat and light dead or light squat heavy dead weekly), Abs

[gcs118]

If you're doing the 6x3 program right, there is gonna be no way you will have the energy for singles before or after. The 6x3 program took my bench press from about 195-200 to 3 singles at 220 in only 6-8 weeks. I'm about to start 6x3 on squats and a modified version on bench. Like Dave and Luke said, it seems like overkill to me to add singles, but if it's working, by all means keep it up!

[luke.w]

I'm leaning towards firehawks side here a tad, what happens is anytime you get into something new, it's going to feel like the best workout EVER, and thats a wonderful feeling, BUT what may happen is, it'll get tougher and tougher as the weeks go on, soooo I always like too make myself sronger in the meantime and then go back and hit those GREAT feeling workouts, everyso often for a few weeks, it's great on the mind and the body that way.

just my opinion!!!

[.V.]

OK, I'm getting it now. Seems like even though it is working - it is a bit too much and it will soon stop working and possibly even be counterproductive. It just feels sooo good to suddenly get stronger by suprise when not expecting it. Especially since I have a tendancy to suddenly lose strength.

About the shoulder volume, it is like this:

Shrugs(front), Shrugs (rear), MP, Upright row, DB MP. Volume is 3 x 4-6.

I don't entirely understand though, why if 6x3 will make one stronger on some muscles, it is too much on others. Or why others need a higher rep range. Why not just go heavier and do less reps on everything - like when I dropped the 4x8 routine and went to MAX OT - it made everything stronger pretty quickly. The reason I'm lookng for a change is because I think I've been doing it too long and have adapted to it. The progress seems to have stalled.

[Firehawk]

No point doing MP and DB MP in the same workout. If anything, alternate those every other week because they're the same movement essentially.

[.V.]

Yeah that makes sense. But I still don't know the answer to the last question I asked. The one about the different volumes needed for different muscles. I'm not being argumentative, I really want to know...need to know.

I added the DB work on shoulder day to...well, work the shoulders some more. Plus with the bar coming from in front of my chest with regular MP, I just thought that doing it with dumbells, I could come from the top of my shoulders and push up straight and hit the delts a bit differently. I could look for something else to do with DBs on shoulder day.

I'm off to put in a few miles and see if I can finish wearing out these shoes. Check back with ya later.

[Firehawk]

They do hit the delts slightly differently but that's why you do them alternating weekly. Both are too much. You can do front raises, rear delt raises, lateral raises to hit allt he delts hard. Done properly they are effective.