New insights in powerlifting gear - Page 2

**Jaster** · 21-Jul-06, 10:08 AM

I am or err was a Powerlifter. But I am also a Firefighter.
I started and still lift for functional strength. So If I can't lift it without a suit I can't lift it. Hell if a ceiling came down on me in a job would I have a suit to help me lift it off of myself and my crew?
It reminds me of a line from "Batman Begins".
"What good are all those pushups if you can't lift a piece of wood off of you?"
This is just how I look at it. If others wear a suit good for them. I also don't make fun of the guys lifting low numbers, As long as they are giving their own 100% or more everytime. 150 lb bench is better then nothing.
Now if that guy bench 150 can do 250 and is "Phoneing in" his lifts then it's open season!!!

**Firehawk** · 21-Jul-06, 10:12 AM

Powerlifting gear is for competing and nothing else. It should not be compared to raw lifting or life situations like Jaster said in my opinion. Jaster, you should know this.

**Firehawk** · 21-Jul-06, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan C

And Firehawk, didn't you post a Tate article where he called raw lifting stupid (or something to that effect) just a couple days ago? I thought that article was stupid because anyone that knocks raw lifting has their head in their ass. You can't say that about assisted lifting for the points that I've already raised.

You obviously didn't read the article Dan. It was about having sex without a condom LOL. READ IT.

Some of the guys at my gym do agree with you, but with a twist. They think that the best thing that could happen to Powerlifting is that they get rid of double/triple ply equipment and stick with a single ply, and may the best man win. I tend to agree. There really isn't a limit on it and maybe there should be, but this isn't what i've argued with you about before

.

**Jaster** · 21-Jul-06, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Powerlifting gear is for competing and nothing else. It should not be compared to raw lifting or life situations like Jaster said in my opinion. Jaster, you should know this.

Yeah What I meant was to make a point and I went to left field.
I would go raw even if the meet allowd suits.

(Oh and sorry bout messing that post up!) LOL

**Firehawk** · 21-Jul-06, 10:19 AM

Yeah some guys only go raw, some only go single ply, and some use whatever is available and permitted.

Dan C · 21-Jul-06, 10:50 AM

I did read it, though I admit I didn't catch the punchline. Even when I read the condom part it didn't sink in. Though he was obviously trying to justify gear by using a parallel story.

**.V.** · 21-Jul-06, 11:36 AM

I'm not wanting to squash debate or discussion, just to encourage respect for others.

Personally, If I can't lift it on my own - without spotters, straps, or a belt or whatever - the weight isn't mine. That's why I have so few entries in the PR thread. That's why I have the smallest numbers of anyone who lifts - even smaller than most of the girls.

But so what - if someone lifts X pounds raw - then it's their lift. If someone lifts Y pounds with equipment - so what, just designate it as with whatever equipment was used. And most training logs that I've read where lifters use equipment - they keep track of what was used for what lift next to the numbers. I'm still giving props to them for lifting that big ass weight in the shirt or suit or whatever was used.

My point was simply that too many people seem to have the attitude - even if they don't use the exact words - the attitude is still given out that, "if he doesn't lift or train the way I do then he must be an idiot". This is wrong. Give respect to all aspects of the sport...from the guy who flips logs and carries fat women, to the guy who oils up and poses, or the one who benches raw vs the one who benches in a shirt...that's my whole point. I hope you can get it.

**Firehawk** · 21-Jul-06, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan C

I did read it, though I admit I didn't catch the punchline. Even when I read the condom part it didn't sink in. Though he was obviously trying to justify gear by using a parallel story.

No he wasn't, it was a joke dude. LOL lighten up man lol. It was a cute story.

Bearbait · 21-Jul-06, 02:39 PM

Thought Dan would be interested in this. The IPF technical commitee is thinking about making changes to the rules on benching limiting arch by having the feet and heels at 90 degrees, no hand off to the lifter, signal at chest and of course elimination of the bench shirt. This was on the USAPL forum

Dan C · 21-Jul-06, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_welch503

I'm not wanting to squash debate or discussion, just to encourage respect for others.

Personally, If I can't lift it on my own - without spotters, straps, or a belt or whatever - the weight isn't mine. That's why I have so few entries in the PR thread. That's why I have the smallest numbers of anyone who lifts - even smaller than most of the girls.

But so what - if someone lifts X pounds raw - then it's their lift. If someone lifts Y pounds with equipment - so what, just designate it as with whatever equipment was used. And most training logs that I've read where lifters use equipment - they keep track of what was used for what lift next to the numbers. I'm still giving props to them for lifting that big ass weight in the shirt or suit or whatever was used.

My point was simply that too many people seem to have the attitude - even if they don't use the exact words - the attitude is still given out that, "if he doesn't lift or train the way I do then he must be an idiot". This is wrong. Give respect to all aspects of the sport...from the guy who flips logs and carries fat women, to the guy who oils up and poses, or the one who benches raw vs the one who benches in a shirt...that's my whole point. I hope you can get it.

I hear what you're saying welch, but you're still misreading me. It has nothing to do with the way I train personally because I do things that I would never recommend or expect anyone to do. And because people don't do what I do doesn't make them an idiot, so don't try painting me in that light, or being so melodramatic, or whatever your deal is.

I get your point about giving respect, but I don't see all things in the Irongame as equals. Sorry, but that's the way I feel about it and I think it's perfectly natural too. Do you not hold certain professions at a higher regard than others? I have all the respect in the world for those in law enforcement, military, firefighters, health care workers, etc. I think such careers are more worthy of respect than something like a tabloid reporter, an escort service, a loan shark or a defense attorney. That's not to say anything negative about the individual, because in some cases I have plenty of respect for what they've accomplished (passing the barr exam) but that doesn't mean I agree with their choices or have to respect what they do.

And I know, I know. To each his own... well this is mine, and my justifications behind it.

**.V.** · 21-Jul-06, 03:59 PM

Not painting you in any light or being melodramatic. Just reccomending respect for other views and aspects of the game.

So a natural, unassisted lifter has to work hard for his gains - of course he does.

So a juiced lifter still has to work just as hard - just gets bigger gains.

An equipped lifter has to work just as hard too - just differently.

I'll still give respect to all of them for their accomplishments...are they different, sure they are. But still deserving of respect for what they do - pick up heavy stuff.

A natural, unassisted guy deadlifting 500 is more impressive than the assisted one doing the same, but I'm still giving props to the guy that did it...sure, go ahead and differentiate between the two because they are different. But I'm not dissing someone just because they do it differently.

And no, I give no more respect to the physician than I give to the lady that sweeps the floor...they both do thier job. In the gym - I give equal consideration to the one using a squat suit as the one without it - because they are both lifting.

That's my whole point - don't drive wedges or feel like you can put someone down because they are different or have different goals. And that seems to be happening.

Kind of like in bodybuilding, comparing Reeves to Coleman - can't be done. I won't say "well, piss on coleman because it was the drugs". Because it is untrue - it was still lifting some heavy ass weights that gave him his physique. Do I view them differently - sure I do. Do I think less of Reeves for being smaller - no I don't. Do I think less of Coleman for probably not being natural - no I don't. I give equal respect to both for accomplishments made.

MTG35 · 22-Jul-06, 01:40 PM

So then do you give equal respect to someone like Bonds and the way he chooses to break records, over the guy who set the original record?

The guy on juice still has to "work hard" but gets greater gains. Well is it really the same "hard work" as the natural guy. I don't have any idea as I have never taken any of that. I think that it is not the same. The way I understand it they don't have to go through the same recovery cycle as the natural guy, they don't get as sore as the natural guy, etc. I could be wrong as I have never taken it and I don't truely know what they go through. But to me a "shortcut" is a shortcut. What I think a lot us take issue with is that no one is really educating young ones on the values of hard work. You know it. Firehawk knows it. Dan knows it. Yes a lot know it. But young ones don't listen to us do they? Not most anyway. They listen to flashy media hype and slick salesmen who promise all the glory and none of the work, or a lot less of the work. The people who promote the stuff are not taking responsibility for encouraging hard work, they are promoting shortcuts. There is nothing IMO to respect about that. Teaching techniques that can be applied to maximize the power of your natural body is one thing. But use this (drug, suit, etc) and you don't have to work as hard. Its just a bad bad thing to be promoting. Everything today is about instant gratification and if you don't get it give up. This is just another example of that. I deal with a whole lot of young people who think everything should just be handed to them. They don't want any part of anything that means hard work. That bothers me and I don't see how with the permissive additude toward these types of things that we can really correct this.

Again no disrepect to any person, but it certain circumstances I cannot give respect to their decisions.

**Firehawk** · 22-Jul-06, 01:59 PM

Once again, there is a lack of understanding of the equipment involved in which you have based your opinion. From what I read, it sounds like you think that one does not have to work as hard if they are using equipment. Is that what you said?

Maxgain · 22-Jul-06, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Once again, there is a lack of understanding of the equipment involved in which you have based your opinion. From what I read, it sounds like you think that one does not have to work as hard if they are using equipment. Is that what you said?

I have to say I have a lack of understandin on using gear(equipment) and have a question about it. Personally I could not care less whether people use it or not thats because i go for bodybuilding over power and as long as i knoe the lifts are good aimimg for 300/400/500 I dont care what anyone else does.
My question however is just say i add 80lbs to my bench press does by body experience this extra stress. Ie if i went up 10lbs a week for 8 weeks would my chest itself be experiencing this allowing me to put on the compensatory gain in muscle for the extra stress or is it just that current muscle plus shirt = an extra 80lbs and stress is same on chest. If you undersatnd?
Thanks

Maxgain · 22-Jul-06, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_welch503

So a natural, unassisted lifter has to work hard for his gains - of course he does.

So a juiced lifter still has to work just as hard - just gets bigger gains.
.

Yup you take the likes off Coleman and lets just say Todd. I believe they put the same dedication and work in for what they have and have both achieved so far as best they can and equal kudos to both. The only problem unfortunatley is most will look at Todd and think steroid taker and as such hold Coleman in a much higher light whcih is unfair really and a big disadvantage of steroid use.