re evalute form

[ixoyc]

i have been doing the clean and jerk for a while and now i'm plateauing. my problem now is getting under the bar. what kinds of things should i do to get under it without kiling myself. thanks a bunch

i've been watching tons of videos online (like on youtube) to learn form. i watched the best (olympics, the guy from iran and the not so good). figure i would watch what the best do, obviously. but the subpar i also watch to look for what they do wrong, so i can see if i'm doin any of those things. i don't have a trainer or anything to teach me while i do it, so it's been a slow process.

[tim_mcf]

Work on form a LOT with very low weight, i.e. a piece of pvc or a broomstick. Concentrate on fulling extending and getting elevation on the bar, and then JUMP underneath it as fast as possible. Back off about 25 lbs from the point you're plateaued at and work on form at that weight, being really picky about how fast you can get under the bar. Watch these videos:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/c...ean-n-jerk.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/cfj-nov-05/clean.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CleanCatchHeight.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...CleanDrops.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...odd-object.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/B...dPullPower.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...dPullClean.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/B...Fit_Timing.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...ngTheClean.wmv

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/j...erett_lift.mpg

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/G...emsHisZero.wmv

[gymgirl]

I just have to say Tim has linked to some amazing videos. I'm used them all to help learn the C&J, they are very helpful, especially the Coach Burgener ones!

[ixoyc]

watched them thank you very much. i learned quite a bit.
though you mentioned jumping. do you literally mean jumping cause i saw people jumping in the videos. was this to exagerate form because the videos of competition, no one jumps they bring the bar up to about/a little higher than waist level and that's when they get under it. do you have an idea of what i'm saying?

[tim_mcf]

You should actually jump, yes - kind of, anyway. If you listen to the sound on those videos of competition, you should hear the feet smacking the platform as they drop under the bar. This is because your stance changes from narrow to wide and there is a moment when everything is in free fall. Combine the "floating" of the bar as illustrated in the "2nd pull power" video with the light-speed drop into the squat as illustrated in the "clean drops" video... the bar is floating for a moment, because of the momentum and elevation you have given it. At that moment you drop into a front squat, and you move so fast that your feet actually leave the platform for a moment. Basically, it's a jump underneath the bar. In competition, really good weightlifters will be working with such heavy loads that their feet will only go a few centimeters off the platform at that point, which is why you can't really see it on the video - it's there, though.

[trainerty]

My 2 cents here:

Videos, pics and articles can only show you so much and can really create problems with form. Dynamic movements such as cleans are better learned by going to a strength and conditioning clinic. A lot of times a local college will have sign ups or just search a bit.

Actually getting coach will be very much worth your time and money. Invest in a few consultation sessions.

[ixoyc]

oh okay, i remember now, that guy showing the thing with the weight on a jump rope. just when they had all those people doing it with the bars and very light weight, it is different i guess.

i've tried asking people about it (i.e my football coach) he admits that he know little about it. i've never seen anyone do it where i go. maybe they go at different times. i have seen some teens do something like it. not sure exactly what they were doing though. the were standing the whole time and were bringin the bar to their chest and then over their head...i also tried looking up stuff online. nothing. i will ask when i go to the gym tonight. thank you very much for your guy's help.

[trainerty]

Sorry to hear that.

I'm surprised the college you speak of doesn't have a strngth and conditioning coach....or perhaps you are talking about highschool.

Well, goodluck

[tim_mcf]

I agree completely with Ty, too. All I am is a self-taught amateur who reads a lot. I understand the basic concepts pretty well, but I'm not very good at actully doing these movements. There is nobody coaching these movements within 300 miles of me, as far as I have been able to determine, so I have had to just try it out and learn what I could on my own. Having a coach would undeniably be a better way to go.

[ixoyc]

yeah this was highschool. i hope someone knows at the air force academy which is where i'm leaving to on june 27th. well thank you very much for your help

[trainerty]

They should. The air force academy host many collegiate teams. I remember one coach in the air force who was very impressive with his powerlifting knowledge. The big bonus is asking or joining a sports group there won't cost you a dime.

[ixoyc]

okay i redid some things. brought me grip a lot narrower (had elbow pain before). i just did the clean part, as this is my weak point. also cause my shoulders hurt. now they feel like their gonna fall off (especially after softball practice, it's a church league...). should i not do this after a bench day?

[trainerty]

It all depends what does your rep/set range for each exercise look like?
Do you have a shoulder injury or constant pain?

[ixoyc]

well i never go more than 3 reps. and it's more like do a rep, take a breather do it again, (wash, rinse, repeat). then i go up in weight. i go up in weight like 3-4 times so it's like 3-4 sets relatively low volume.
as for my shoulder it hurts to stretch it, feels like its gonna rip off. and resting sometimes it has this kind of numbing pain.

[trainerty]

A young buck like yourself already beat up.... that's ashame:

Well, you probably shouldn't be stretching the shoulder. If you strained tendons or muscle in the shoulder, the last thing you will want to do is stretch it and make it worse. Seek out an NMT if you have the cash. If not get a sadistic friend or girlfriend to press and massage deeply into the shoulder area where it hurts. Also, you can get some ice and press deep into the area and massage in a circular motion.

If you are having trouble with the first pull (or clean part). You should be working on high pulls. I would not recommend any of this for someone with bad shoulders. And quit benching...that is by far the worst you can do for this. If you MUST bench, do not lower the bar further than a 90 degree bend in the arms. After that point you are really not using chest...you are dangerously rotationg the humerus in its socket (tearing up the shoulders). Better yet go to dumbbells.

Get better at chinups and shoulder isolated chinups (scapula elevation/depression).

Unless it is necessary leave the cleans alone for the time being. There are more movements in the gym.