Anyone want to talk about this?

[Firehawk]

As Dan already stated, you cannot use the statistic that most homos come from a straight family to back up your argruments because since (just making it up for the sake of getting my point across in regard to majority of the population being straight) 80% of people are straight, the odds are of COURSE that you're gonna have more gays raised by straight people. What does that honestly tell you? It tells you that there are more straight couples with children than gays with children. There is more chance that there will be gays found in straight couples which have exponentially more children than gays. That's it. It doesn't tell you anything further.

I took a statistics class in school, hated it, ignored it, did waht i had to do to get a passing grade. It had no appeal to me. Simple fact of the matter is that no matter how many studies are done, while they are performed scientifically, they are all boundaried by their own, damn it what did we used to call it when math problems have them, constraints? Yeah i think that's the word I want to say. Constraints. Every study is limited by the amount of care and planning that the scientist is conducting each with (if this isn't the constraints, someone feel free to correct me). Therefore, they all become subjective in my opinion.

Currently, because I'm religious, I beleive the same way Pierini does. I believe marriage is defined as a man and a woman being married. I also believe it is a sin to be gay, which means I believe it is a choice. Perhaps it isn't a choice at times that you are 'gay' but the decision to maybe act on it is. Perhaps one could argue that gay people are confused about their feelings? It's one thing to love your friend, another to confuse it with sexual feelings of love? I'm just guessing, have no idea.

The reason I feel this way is because I believe in what the Bible says about it, and thus if God is holding a person responsible for being gay, it has to be a choice, because how can he hold someone responsible when it isn't their fault? Jesus took care of THAT PROBLEM by dying on the cross.

Along the same lines, I guess you aren't even supposed to THINK sexual thoughts about your neighbor. It's awful tough to control thoughts, but it's notas hard to stop yourself from acting.

[MAURER]

i am all for conservative values. i think they create the great backbone of this country. however, i don't see why the social conservative values should be enforced in the government. i just feel as though the enforcement of values needs to come from parents, churches, friends, the conscious, etc. thats how you get a moral and strong society. the government is here to protect our freedom which is why i think that it is their responsability to recognize gays and straights equally under the eyes of the law. i think the best approach would probably be change the standards for the rognition of a heterosexual union. that way, those terms, such as ability to visit at a deathbed, helping to make important life decisions for partners, and other financial and personal issues, can be recognized for both straights and gays. that way, we call neither "marriage" specifically under the law. that way, you can give homosexuals rights and still maintain the dignity of that religious union, which holds so much sanctity, marriage. that word can remain what it has always meant to the religions to which we belong. for some dude in africa, it can be him and those 3 wives of his (referring back to previous posts), for the majority of us it will remain a union between a man and his wife. then gays can call whatever they have a marriage if they want... but it won't be formally recognized by our churches or government. also, i feel as though if it is handled this way, people who would be against actual "gay marriage" won't feel as though anyone is trying to force them to change their value system.

Originally Posted by MAURER

that way, those terms, such as ability to visit at a deathbed, helping to make important life decisions for partners, and other financial and personal issues, can be recognized for both straights and gays.

Gay couples can accomplish those things contractually. They can co-own property together either as tenants-in-common or joint tenancy with right of survivorship. One gay person can include another gay person in his/her estate and bequest his/her entire estate to that person.

A gay person can execute a power of attorney and a durable health care directive designating another gay person the power to make financial and health care decisions on his/her behalf.

So there is no need to lobby for allowing gays to marry to have these arrangements. Besides they cannot because marriage is a union between a man and woman.

[TomG]

Mauer, that is what a bunch of us have been saying. Thanks for your support. Well-said.

[CF-OC_gal]

I have to mention that after 14 pages the link at the bottom of this page for "similar threads" still is this one....http://www.discussfitness.com/forums...ups-31490.html

I don't see the connection but it's funny.