Anyone want to talk about this? - Page 4

Maxgain · 10-Dec-07, 12:32 PM

Homosexuality, I believe is a mixture of genetics/ enviornment. The ratios are like all genetic tendencies will vary. For some enviornment will play a major part others it will be as no result of enviornment. Similarities can be found in other diseases as common as hypercholesterolemia.

This will also explain its occurence as a minority and in other species.

You will note my use of the word diease. It most likely is a disease and as such there may be little the person can do about it.
Therefore I would not judge the person and would not prejudice them in legal rights as well.
For me however marriage is not a legal right it is religous. I do not believe a lot of straight couples should eb aloowed marry either.
The rearing of children has legal influence but as far as Im concerned the underlining force for this is nature. Nature in an uncorrupted way and nature as it is intended a man and a woman to produce and rear a child.

Unfortunately it does not always work out this way and whoi am I to publicly oppose it however I do know when it does not in the best interest of the child though it may not be someones fault.

As religion goes as I see it as a disease I have confusion about the evil of those who are homosexual. The people themselves are not inherently evil and surely feelings they may not even want, have no control over cannot define them as such.

Perhaps it is a burden for people to live with which cannot be explained with Gods mysterious ways such as children who are born with congenital defects that do not even give them a chance in life to experience such feelings have such thoughts or to debate such topics.

**Firehawk** · 10-Dec-07, 12:33 PM

I have felt the same way Pierini stated for a long time, but you know, that is a big component to what is being discussed. Do you believe it is a choice to be gay? Or, do you feel that you are created gay or straight?

Dogs will hump other males, but they'll also hump the female if they get the chance. So are other species really homosexual or just bisexual, or just opportunistic? lol

I've had this conversation a few times with the girlfriend and she brings up questions that I really cant' answer. But since Pierini brought it up, i'm going to ask:

If you are religious, or Christian, and you feel homosexuality is wrong, then you thereby must feel that people who are anything other than straight made that choice. Why would God make it a sin and then hold you accountable to it if you didn't choose to be that way?

And if you don't feel it's a choice, then you contract the Bible.

Anyone who wants to eleborate, feel free. It's interesting because when I bring this up, my girlfriend turns to me and says "why would anyone want to CHOOSE to be gay?" The only thing I can retort with is "why would anyone want to put 30 piercings all over their face"?

I don't know, I'm not gay, and I don't have 30 piercings on my face. It is a touchy subject and I'm happy to see the conversation moving along nicely so far.

10-Dec-07, 12:36 PM

This will most definitely throw gasoline and further ignite the fire of this thread but why not.

In a religious context, more specifically the Catholic faith with which I am familiar, homosexuality is a sin but so is fornification. We are taught to love the sinner but despise the sin.

We are all sinners.

I may be unable to specifically respond to all the reply posts this may generate due to time demands.

**Firehawk** · 10-Dec-07, 12:37 PM

Maxgain you posted just as I was typing so I wanted to capture this:

You said the following: "Therefore I would not judge the person and would not prejudice them in legal rights as well."

But according to the Bible, God does judge and one thing made clear is that homosexuality is a sin. So therefore, wouldn't that tell you it's a choice? How can God hold you responsibile if it isn't your fault?

You said this: "As religion goes as I see it as a disease I have confusion about the evil of those who are homosexual. The people themselves are not inherently evil and surely feelings they may not even want, have no control over cannot define them as such."

Heterosexuals have premarital sex all the time and many of them probably aren't bad people, yet they're still judged on it because it is a sin in the Bible to have sex before marriage.

Source: 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10

Maxgain · 10-Dec-07, 12:53 PM

Yeah I see you were typing the same time as me.

What about 2 babies born into the world. They did not ask for it it was a gift from God.
One is born into a well to do family. A family with religous values parent who spend time with the child who instill values in it who pray who go to mass who feel for others and help them out. The family is well off, the child gets the best of education. The childs inherits all good traits hes smart hes good looking he does well and is well liked. The father has links in the business world to set the child up.

The other child born into the lower class. The parents have no time or interest for religion. What has god done for them. Perhaps there is crime involved, perhaps violence perhaps drug use. What if the child has no time for studies he has to help the dad with work perhaps illicit work, perhaps they are desperate enough to do anything to keep them going to support habits to fend off enemies. Like all children his parents play the major influence in his upbringing. These are the people who educate him the most who he respects the most.

Now if one of these children is to grow up to be a criminal, a scum bag a person who hurts others without feelings a sinner in the definition that no one regardless of religous beliefs disagrees with.

Now is this not a condition of circumstances, was there really much of a choice for child B and if so why is he put in the circumstances to make it so much harder to live a good life successfully.

Can we really blame him for how he ended up surely if he had being born into family A he would of had a much better chance and so is it fair to put him at such a disadvantage of getting into heaven as defined by prac everyone.

Also I know criminals can result from any background however studies have proved the stereotypes are statistically true.

**Firehawk** · 10-Dec-07, 01:01 PM

Max,

I don't fully understand God's decision and judgment, but I will say what I have to say anyways.

1. There's a quote in the bible about the rich man entering heaven, and it's likely the poor one will. Jesus was poor.

2. The bible says that all will have a chance to hear the word of God and make a decision.

3. We preach on this website about no excuses for exercise. We jump on people when they say "i don't have time to do an hour of cardio 3 times a week". What do we tell them? We say MAKE time. I think God expects nothing less.

4. When you are put in a tougher situation than others, it means all that much more when you overcome them.

5. Remember the man on the cross next to Jesus? He was bad all his life, but he came to know Jesus and was saved.

6. I think children are exempt from judgment until they are able to think for themselves.

**MAURER** · 10-Dec-07, 06:04 PM

alright just one thought.... not everyone is christian and not everyone shares those beliefs about god. therefore, those are not facts of nature but instead ideas of men.

**Firehawk** · 10-Dec-07, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAURER

alright just one thought.... not everyone is christian and not everyone shares those beliefs about god. therefore, those are not facts of nature but instead ideas of men.

Well, you may not share the same beliefs about God, but I don't think you can interpret that part of the bible any other way. What religion condones homosexuality?

TomG · 10-Dec-07, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Source: 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10

I think it is useful to quote scripture that shows where one gets his/her own ideas, but referencing it to show someone else how to think or to prove a point doesn't work any better than a Buddhist quoting a Sutra to a Methodist. There are so many different things said in so many places with so many interpretations, in the end one must realize it is all personal to oneself or to one's own church.

**Firehawk** · 10-Dec-07, 08:54 PM

Ok, when it says "thou shalt not kill", how do you interpret that any other way? lol

Anyways, i posted it more as a discussion, not a personal thing as if to tell someone they are wrong for thinking how they do. It was brought up to discuss. Evidently people are too sensitive.

CF-OC_gal · 10-Dec-07, 08:55 PM

Homosexuality is as natural as the birds and the bees but that is probably why it conflicts with organized religion. Marriage is a man made institution.

Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate

Merrida · 10-Dec-07, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomG

Wow, having children being a privilege, not a right, wow. Do you really mean that,

Yes.

Merrida · 10-Dec-07, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Ok, when it says "thou shalt not kill", how do you interpret that any other way? lol

Technically, it is: Thou shall not murder.

Merrida · 10-Dec-07, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Anyways, i posted it more as a discussion, not a personal thing as if to tell someone they are wrong for thinking how they do. It was brought up to discuss. Evidently people are too sensitive.

For the record, I'd engage in discussion and debate,.....as mentioned, I enjoy debates,...I don't set out to win them, lose them, just partake in them. I also enjoy discussing subject matter with people whose viewpoint is different than mine, as long as we all refrain from things like name calling.

.

**MAURER** · 10-Dec-07, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Well, you may not share the same beliefs about God, but I don't think you can interpret that part of the bible any other way. What religion condones homosexuality?

there may not be religions specifically condoning homosexuality. but there are religions out there that don't mention it either. in other words, they don't say its bad. what is more important is that at the end of the day, i think it is wiser to look into your own soul or conscience to decide what is right and wrong, rather than to look at the teachings of another man to decide for you. when i think about the essence of what a homosexual is, i don't see anything inherently bad about it. they are not causing malice unto anyone else. they are just living the life that they were guided to take.