Bought a Russian Saiga AK47.

[Firehawk]

You first, Last word freak. LMFAO

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

You first, Last word freak. LMFAO

Yer a clown. It's obvious you can't answer anything. I'm done with you, genius.

[MAURER]

you guys are both being ridiculous. if there was a clear cut answer that said "this makes having guns safer" or vice versa, the public would be all on it voting to strengthen the 2nd ammendment or to reverse it. the truth is, there are arguments for either side. dandjdad, id like to ask you how you feel about my opinion that it is necessary to allow private gun ownership as long as other institutions are able to have them. i feel ass though i have the right to protect my own life with a gun, against a gun. otherwise, you are forced to submit to the will of others. i believe this is the reason for the 2nd ammendment, not because its cool to collect them (although i am not against collecting guns as a hobby).

[LiftGirl]

dandjdad,

Even if you could somehow get guns away from everyone, criminal and law-abiding citizens alike, how do you get around the Second Amendment? Are you suggesting repealing it?

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by LiftGirl

dandjdad,

Even if you could somehow get guns away from everyone, criminal and law-abiding citizens alike, how do you get around the Second Amendment? Are you suggesting repealing it?

Every law that is written is only as good as it relates to the time frame in which it being enforced. Ask yourself...does every law written stay relevant for an infinite period of time? Is the integrity of its initial intended purpose intact? As far as the 2nd amendment goes, I'd say the answer to both of those questions is, at best, up for discussion.

Remember, it wasn't that long ago that slavery was protected by law in this country as well. If you were alive in the 1860's and a plantation owner, LiftGirl, would you have been outraged had they tried to take your God-given right to own slaves away from you?

[westside24]

Oooooooo thats a good comparison..... But we are talking guns, not slaves. But I liked that one really. I was laughing reading this whole page, and then this last one was like... Ohhhhhhh. lol

You are right, for everything you say, a billion people attack you, but you arent really getting many answers out of us. well firehawk is doing a good job replying to you, and I try not to leave you hanging all though im not as educated about this stuff.

[MAURER]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

Every law that is written is only as good as it relates to the time frame in which it being enforced. Ask yourself...does every law written stay relevant for an infinite period of time? Is the integrity of its initial intended purpose intact? As far as the 2nd amendment goes, I'd say the answer to both of those questions is, at best, up for discussion.

Remember, it wasn't that long ago that slavery was protected by law in this country as well. If you were alive in the 1860's and a plantation owner, LiftGirl, would you have been outraged had they tried to take your God-given right to own slaves away from you?

i agree. but in this case i believe that the right to protect yourself with a gun will remain relevant as long a guns exist.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

Why not have armed guards in elementary and pre-schools? How about in day cares?

Great idea. Thanks for that. I see you are coming around. You've reminded me of what they had to do in Isreal. Many years ago terrorists were killing school children. The government there ordered the teachers to bring their weapons to school because it is their job to protect the children in their charge. Soon enough...the school shootings stopped.

Seriously, yeah there are guns in this world. Yeah, someday I may actually be shot and killed. It happens sometims you know. But really, I sincerely hope it's not from lack of shooting back.

Having read every argument in this thread...each and every one, included the lighthearted half joking ones and the very serious ones. There have been some that made absolutely no sense on either side. But I have yet in my entire life to see a common sense gun grabber argument. Not one.

And yeah, some of the pro-freedom ones don't make much sense either. For example, "it keeps big government tyrany at bay". Well, yeah to some extent that may be true. But in reality, when a tank pulls up to my front door there is nothing in my arsenal going to stop it.

[MAURER]

Originally Posted by .V.

And yeah, some of the pro-freedom ones don't make much sense either. For example, "it keeps big government tyrany at bay". Well, yeah to some extent that may be true. But in reality, when a tank pulls up to my front door there is nothing in my arsenal going to stop it.

probably addressing me. i admit this is true but its not all about revolution and rebellion. i think gun ownership is necesssary because even if some random police officer is coming at me with a gun, i believe i have the right to shoot him if i feel its just, as long i am willing to accept the consequences. i don't want to be at the will of others who are somehow classified as more entitled than i to hold a gun.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by MAURER

probably addressing me. i admit this is true but its not all about revolution and rebellion. i think gun ownership is necesssary because even if some random police officer is coming at me with a gun, i believe i have the right to shoot him if i feel its just, as long i am willing to accept the consequences. i don't want to be at the will of others who are somehow classified as more entitled than i to hold a gun.

Nope, addressing me. I've made that argument before. And once...a couple of hundred years ago, it was valid. But now...nope.

Now about dealing with a rogue officer, yeah that is a possiblility. I do know of a couple of psycho stalker cops who...well never mind. But really, it's very unlikely to happen. However, officer or no officer your right to defend yourself against death, grievous bodily harm, or sexual assault does not go away. And yeah if you reasonably feel this is a real risk, they have no more rights than any other perpetrator.

As far as somehow "more entitled". That brings up an old memory. Remember reading "Animal Farm" in 6th grade or whenever it was? The meaning of one line in it will stay with me forever. The pigs said, "we are all equal but some of us are more equal than others". That might not be a perfect quote but it's close. Think about that. Some are "more equal" That means they have the right to weapons and protection but the rest of us don't? Reminds me of the hypocracy of some of the gun grabbers. I seem to remember of Rosie Odonnel crying out for gun control while having an armed bodyguard for herself and her children. I remember the history of communism and so many other totalarian regimes where the inital goal was to disarm the populace.

So yeah, a good argument. However, I repeat - I don't think my AK is going to do much to stop a tank sitting at my front door...so in the end it's still a silly one for me to try to make.

[LiftGirl]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

Every law that is written is only as good as it relates to the time frame in which it being enforced. Ask yourself...does every law written stay relevant for an infinite period of time? Is the integrity of its initial intended purpose intact? As far as the 2nd amendment goes, I'd say the answer to both of those questions is, at best, up for discussion.

Remember, it wasn't that long ago that slavery was protected by law in this country as well. If you were alive in the 1860's and a plantation owner, LiftGirl, would you have been outraged had they tried to take your God-given right to own slaves away from you?

However, the Second Amendment is not merely a law; it is part of the Constitution. The rights enumerated in the Constitution are sacred. That's why the founders made it so difficult to change.

You can't just say the Second Amendment isn't relevant anymore. You can't just ignore it; you would have to repeal it. Otherwise, what other rights can the government say are irrelevant and simply ignore, without going through the channels of repeal?

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by LiftGirl

However, the Second Amendment is not merely a law; it is part of the Constitution. The rights enumerated in the Constitution are sacred. That's why the founders made it so difficult to change.

You can't just say the Second Amendment isn't relevant anymore. You can't just ignore it; you would have to repeal it. Otherwise, what other rights can the government say are irrelevant and simply ignore, without going through the channels of repeal?

You're quite right, so kudos to you. In fact, were you aware that people a helluva lot smarter than me have been debating the repeal of the 2nd amendment for years and years and years? (Or, about as long as I've been mired in this thread.) Thus, having said that, I am not touching this as new topic with a ten-foot pole, as I couldn't bear to get sucked into this thread for another twenty or so pages.

Perhaps you'd like to start a brand new thread, and ask folks with a lot more Constitutional Law experience than myself what they think.

[LiftGirl]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

Perhaps you'd like to start a brand new thread, and ask folks with a lot more Constitutional Law experience than myself what they think.

No, I was just curious if you are for repealing it. It's ok if you are (I don't agree, but that's ok too). I was just curious; you have answered my question.

[westside24]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

I couldn't bear to get sucked into this thread for another twenty or so pages. .

Yes you could! Dont lie. I could!

Why not have armed guards in elementary and pre-schools? How about in day cares?

Here in toledo there are police at every school. Start H.S. has 3-4 officers itself, even the elementries have at least 1 officer, Toledo public accounts for a total of 8 H.S.'s 6 jr. highs and prolly like 30 elementries... then theres washington local, sylvania, toledo catholic and parochial schools. then all the surrounding school districts

Originally Posted by LiftGirl

No, I was just curious if you are for repealing it. It's ok if you are (I don't agree, but that's ok too). I was just curious; you have answered my question.

Aww thats nice we can all get along.

[Dan C]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

Dude, you are a complete fraud.

Originally Posted by dandjdad

Yer a clown. It's obvious you can't answer anything. I'm done with you, genius.

Originally Posted by dandjdad

Ahhh, insults. The last resort of a simple mind.

Enough said.

-FH

LOL!