Bought a Russian Saiga AK47.

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by .V.

Not a copout at all. I own my AK-47, my AR-15, my SKS, my handguns, my Remington 870magnum police shotgun simply because I can have them and I want them.

I don't need your permission or approval. Don't want it. There is no point other than I want them. I don't give a rat's ass what some SUBJECT in another country thinks of my gun ownership. I'm a CITIZEN in the US and it's legal to own. I also don't care what the liberal gun grabbers in the US think of them...they are mine because I wanted them, I have the money to buy them...so I got them. I enjoy them. And I shoot them.

Is it necessary? Nope, it's not. And yeah I have some single shot shotguns and rifles in my arsenal too. Are they necessary either? Not at all. Do I care who has a problem with my ownership of 40 round magazines? Again, not at all. Guess what I've also got? A CCW permit. Issued by the state. It says that the SBI, Local Law Enforcement, and the FBI checked me out, agreed that I'm a good, safe citizen, and that I'm allowed to carry a Handgun in public, concealed, yeah...possibly even standing in line next to you in a convenience store.

Ever had to face down a man who had just committed an armed robbery or one who simply wanted to kill you and stuck a gun in your face? I have...and did so unarmed...however, I'd have been much more comforatable in the first situation had I been armed at the time...and from that day forward, I was. In fact, the one that just wanted to kill me...I was armed...and didn't go to the gun. I took his away and beat the hell out of him. But it was there just in case taking his away didn't turn out as planned.

As a Christian Andy, do you believe as the Bible says, that violence begets violence?
Also, I would love to hear your take on my multiple choice posting that I submitted yesterday.

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Dan C

Too bad DF doesn't have reputation points, as I'd have given more than a few out in this thread.

Actually I think rep points are stupid... but you get my drift.

I would love it if DF had a reputation point option.

[westside24]

wow. its crazy how people say the wrong thing, or have a different opinion about something, and all hell breaks loose.... internet-ly. my 10 yr. old brother behaves just like this.

no worries guys. I will not let heated debates reflect on what I think about you all. I still think you are all good people with the best of intentions.

[Gooseneck]

Originally Posted by .V.

Guess what I've also got? A CCW permit. Issued by the state. It says that the SBI, Local Law Enforcement, and the FBI checked me out, agreed that I'm a good, safe citizen, and that I'm allowed to carry a Handgun in public, concealed, yeah...possibly even standing in line next to you in a convenience store.

Same here brother. You just never know. I've grown to feel comfortable now carrying a gun everywhere I go, but it took a little time getting over the fact that "i was carrying a gun everywhere I went" and nobody knew it.

[Dan C]

This is right in my backyard... a gun would have saved Mr. Sowers life.

Zack Sowers Rest in Peace

Zachary Sowers, who was robbed and beaten nine months ago outside his Patterson Park home and had been in a vegetative state since, has died from his injuries, according to a family Web site and the director of a funeral home handling the services.

The place of death was not divulged and family members did not return immediate calls for comment. Sowers, who was married less than a year to his wife, Anna, when he was attacked, had been treated at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center.

"It is with great sadness that I write to tell you that my close and wonderful friend, Zach Sowers, passed away yesterday, Tuesday, March 25, after a long and steady decline," according to a posting on zachsowers. com.

"Anna called me today to tell me that he passed away peacefully around 10 p.m. last night. Zach is now at peace after a long and treacherous battle."

The death was confirmed by Courtney Stauffer, the director of Stauffer Funeral Homes in Frederick, which is in charge of services.

God bless Anna and the family. God save the rest of us from Baltimore.

My heart goes out to Zach, his wife and his family. My deepest sympathy for such a sad story. It's time for everyone to get out of the city.
It's not safe and jealousy is going to kill you. If you stay buy a gun and train to use it. The police, mayor and SA aren't going to protect you.

"Anna has told me that she and the family are doing as well as can be," the posting said. "They have a strong network of friends and family supporting them and ask that their privacy be respected during this difficult time."

The June 2 attack galvanized a community outraged by crime and prompted Anna Sowers to launch a campaign that included organizing numerous fundraisers at bars in Federal Hill and Canton to help pay for medical care. She was working to change laws to make it easier for juveniles to be tried as adults and to enable murder charges to be filed when victims are in comas.

In August, the attack became fodder in the city's mayoral election; both Mayor Sheila Dixon and her challenger in the Democratic primary election, Keiffer J. Mitchell Jr., visited with Anna Sowers at a local fundraising event.

"I am saddened to hear the news of Zachary Sowers' death. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends," Dixon said in a statement today. "His loss is a tragedy for the entire city of Baltimore. We must continue to work hard to ensure the safety of every citizen."

The teens convicted of beating Sowers could not be charged with murder because the victim hadn't died; their pleas prevent prosecutors from pursuing murder charges now.

In December, Trayvon Ramos, 16, pleaded guilty to attempted first-degree murder and robbery charges and was sentenced to life in prison with all but 40 years suspended. Three others, who agreed to testify against Ramos, received eight-year prison terms.

Anna Sowers had called the sentences "a joke."

Prosecutors said that the four teens robbed Sowers and used his credit cards to purchase gas and videos during a shopping spree over several days.

The funeral home says plans for services are incomplete but that the funeral will be held in Circleville, Ohio, where Sowers was born.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

As a Christian Andy, do you believe as the Bible says, that violence begets violence?
Also, I would love to hear your take on my multiple choice posting that I submitted yesterday.

Did I say I was a christain? Having a degree in divinity and having been a minister in the past doesn't make me a christain.

Yeah, I know more about the bible than almost anyone I know. Do I believe all of it? Hell no. Too much has been changed to support too many points of view too many times. Prolly why I call it my big book of fairy tales. However, yeah it CAN be true that violence does lead to more violence...if you are dumb enough not to finish it once it starts.

The times I had to be violent in the street - I made sure it was brutal and that they would not be getting up to do me harm. Why? Because I have a rule...if it's you and me...I'm going home.

So I subscribe more to the Reagan idea of peace through strength.

And yeah, I'd be more comfortable with EVERY man holding a gun rather than NO man holding one. Take a walk in Kennestone GA one night after Dark Then go take one in New York City. One city gun ownership is mandatory, the other it's forbidden. Now go look at the crime rates. Where are you safer?

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by .V.

And yeah, I'd be more comfortable with EVERY man holding a gun rather than NO man holding one. Take a walk in Kennestone GA one night after Dark Then go take one in New York City. One city gun ownership is mandatory, the other it's forbidden. Now go look at the crime rates. Where are you safer?

Oh, Andy...plese tell me you're not really trying to compare the crime rate of a city with a population of 8 million + (NYC) with a city with 30,000 (Kennisaw, not Kennistone, btw). That is just insane.

Now, if you really want to do a proper comparative analysis, why don't you compare Kennisaw with Morton Grove, IL--a city whose ban on guns in pretty much the whole reason Kennisaw imposed it's gun ownership laws in the first place. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw%2C_Georgia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton_Grove%2C_Illinois for further reading.) Both cities are roughly the same size, sound like great places to raise a family, and were named in the as one of the 10 Best Towns for Families in the August 2007 Family Circle magazine.

One thing I found interesting from the above article on Kennesaw is this tidbit:

Reports of resulting burglary rate statistics
Gary Kleck, a criminologist and gun-control critic attributes a drop of 89% in the residential burglary rate to the law.[3] Kennesaw is often cited by advocates of gun ownership as evidence that gun ownership deters crime. (see, for instance, this 2004 sheet of talking points from the Gun Owners Foundation). Others have challenged this conclusion, however, citing data showing that the number of burglaries in the 10 years spanning the passing of the ordinance remains roughly the same, while burglaries dropped in the city of Morton Grove following their gun ban.[4]

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Dan C

This is right in my backyard... a gun would have saved Mr. Sowers life.

Zack Sowers Rest in Peace

Zachary Sowers, who was robbed and beaten nine months ago outside his Patterson Park home and had been in a vegetative state since, has died from his injuries, according to a family Web site and the director of a funeral home handling the services.

The place of death was not divulged and family members did not return immediate calls for comment. Sowers, who was married less than a year to his wife, Anna, when he was attacked, had been treated at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center.

"It is with great sadness that I write to tell you that my close and wonderful friend, Zach Sowers, passed away yesterday, Tuesday, March 25, after a long and steady decline," according to a posting on zachsowers. com.

"Anna called me today to tell me that he passed away peacefully around 10 p.m. last night. Zach is now at peace after a long and treacherous battle."

The death was confirmed by Courtney Stauffer, the director of Stauffer Funeral Homes in Frederick, which is in charge of services.

God bless Anna and the family. God save the rest of us from Baltimore.

My heart goes out to Zach, his wife and his family. My deepest sympathy for such a sad story. It's time for everyone to get out of the city.
It's not safe and jealousy is going to kill you. If you stay buy a gun and train to use it. The police, mayor and SA aren't going to protect you.

"Anna has told me that she and the family are doing as well as can be," the posting said. "They have a strong network of friends and family supporting them and ask that their privacy be respected during this difficult time."

The June 2 attack galvanized a community outraged by crime and prompted Anna Sowers to launch a campaign that included organizing numerous fundraisers at bars in Federal Hill and Canton to help pay for medical care. She was working to change laws to make it easier for juveniles to be tried as adults and to enable murder charges to be filed when victims are in comas.

In August, the attack became fodder in the city's mayoral election; both Mayor Sheila Dixon and her challenger in the Democratic primary election, Keiffer J. Mitchell Jr., visited with Anna Sowers at a local fundraising event.

"I am saddened to hear the news of Zachary Sowers' death. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends," Dixon said in a statement today. "His loss is a tragedy for the entire city of Baltimore. We must continue to work hard to ensure the safety of every citizen."

The teens convicted of beating Sowers could not be charged with murder because the victim hadn't died; their pleas prevent prosecutors from pursuing murder charges now.

In December, Trayvon Ramos, 16, pleaded guilty to attempted first-degree murder and robbery charges and was sentenced to life in prison with all but 40 years suspended. Three others, who agreed to testify against Ramos, received eight-year prison terms.

Anna Sowers had called the sentences "a joke."

Prosecutors said that the four teens robbed Sowers and used his credit cards to purchase gas and videos during a shopping spree over several days.

The funeral home says plans for services are incomplete but that the funeral will be held in Circleville, Ohio, where Sowers was born.

For every one article you can find which may demonstrate why owning and carrying a gun might have been a good thing (and based on the article above, your conclusion is--at the very least--up for debate), I can find you ten articles that shows why the ease of acquiring guns in this country is a bad thing. Heck, watching the local news last night, in five minutes I saw two stories that proved my point--one about a three year old girl who was paralyzed from a stray bullet, and another about a sniper who was randomly shooting at vehicles on the highway.

Reading the paper this morning, I came across this tidbit to further my argument:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...rts_to_school/

I could go on and on...but I feel as though I'm just being redundant now.

[Firehawk]

But both those cases you mentioned seeing on the news may have been avoided if everyone had a gun...i.e., if you know I have a gun, you're less apt to draw yours on me for fear of your own life.

Would some idiot be waiving a gun around and shooting it at people on the highway if he knew everyone on the highway had their own gun? I doubt it.

Another point is that by making it harder to obtain weapons in this country, you're making it harder on the responsible citizens, and not changing the difficulty level for criminals to acquire weapons...and the advantage then goes to the criminals in that situation.

I think that's Dan C's argument, but I don't want to put words in his mouth.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

Oh, Andy...plese tell me you're not really trying to compare the crime rate of a city with a population of 8 million + (NYC) with a city with 30,000 (Kennisaw, not Kennistone, btw). That is just insane.

Saw / Stone...no matter. Those of us who live here call it by either name as do those who actually live in the cty. So that's not an issue. however thanks for the correction as I could be wrong...living an hour away like I do.

You fail to realize however that the crime rate doesn't come from the 30,000 that live there...it comes from the close proximity to Atlanta. An actual major city. On par with New York. Not as big, or as heavily populated. But still pretty big...and less than 1/2 hour away from Kennisaw.

And yeah, the place is safe to walk around in at night without worries.

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

But both those cases you mentioned seeing on the news may have been avoided if everyone had a gun...i.e., if you know I have a gun, you're less apt to draw yours on me for fear of your own life. .

Both cases? Even a three-year-old girl? Really? You're living in Crazy-Town. There's no way in hell.

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Would some idiot be waiving a gun around and shooting it at people on the highway if he knew everyone on the highway had their own gun? I doubt it.

Do you really doubt it? Really? There's no doubt in my mind this guy would do this whether everybody had a gun or nobody had a gun. Wanna know why...because HE'S A SNIPER! HE'S HIDING! HE'S NOT AFRAID OF GETTING SHOT!

Well, it's fairly obvious to me that many opinions towards guns and gun control are pretty much set in stone. Regardless of what I say, or what evidence or logic I can produce, nobody seems to care or want to change, so long as they have as many guns as they want as often as they can get them.

Anyway, I think I've pretty much exhausted everything in this post. As I mentioned before, I think I made my point, and anything I say beyond this point would just be redundant. I just pray for everybody that has the "guns for all" mentality that, in the event you have school age children, you never have to suffer like those folks in Columbine did.

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by .V.

You fail to realize however that the crime rate doesn't come from the 30,000 that live there...it comes from the close proximity to Atlanta. An actual major city. On par with New York. Not as big, or as heavily populated. But still pretty big...and less than 1/2 hour away from Kennisaw.

And yeah, the place is safe to walk around in at night without worries.

"Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."--Michael Corleone

So what? Morton Grove is a mere fifteen miles from Chicago. So I guess that theory goes out the window...

[.V.]

Well no matter. I won't convince you that you shouldn't grab my guns. You won't convince me that I should let you.

The simple fact is we have them because we want them. They do serve a purpose. They are tools and they can be great recreation. Many of us enjoy them and will own them. Many of you do not and fear what you do not understand therefore not liking them.

No matter. Neither of us will change the other's opinion. So be it.

[MAURER]

once again, it all comes down the right to defend your own life. if you're not going to let me have a gun, then i don't want the police or military to have them either. personally, i want them to have guns, so i'll keep my right to have them too. otherwise you're really powerless to defend your own life.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

Both cases? Even a three-year-old girl? Really? You're living in Crazy-Town. There's no way in hell.



Do you really doubt it? Really? There's no doubt in my mind this guy would do this whether everybody had a gun or nobody had a gun. Wanna know why...because HE'S A SNIPER! HE'S HIDING! HE'S NOT AFRAID OF GETTING SHOT!

Well, it's fairly obvious to me that many opinions towards guns and gun control are pretty much set in stone. Regardless of what I say, or what evidence or logic I can produce, nobody seems to care or want to change, so long as they have as many guns as they want as often as they can get them.

Anyway, I think I've pretty much exhausted everything in this post. As I mentioned before, I think I made my point, and anything I say beyond this point would just be redundant. I just pray for everybody that has the "guns for all" mentality that, in the event you have school age children, you never have to suffer like those folks in Columbine did.

Uh, if someone were to shoot my son, the first thing I'd go get is a gun. lol.

But anyways, yes you stated the little girl was shot by a STRAY bullet. My response intended to imply that the gun would less likely have been fired in the first place. Well i guess it depends on the circumstances. Was someone screwing around playing with a gun and it accidently went off or was the little girl caught in a crossfire? Was it a criminal incident or an accident? Either way it is a sad story, we'll agree at least to that. It's a sad story that any child is injured in any circumstance, whether shot, stabbed, neglected, beaten, whatever.

How are you gonna stop a sniper from doing something like that regardless if nobody has guns or everyone has guns? Because you're not going to stop the idiots like that guy from getting a weapon. But yes, I still hold that if everyone on that highway had a gun, the sniper would STILL be detoured somewhat from doing something like that. Could it still happen? Yeah. You never know what a mental case might do. But how can you seriously argue that taking guns completely away from the general population is going to lower crime?