Bought a Russian Saiga AK47.

[westside24]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

Well, getting all illegal drugs off the streets has really been kind of a half-assed attempt, hasn't it? Not to say that "trying" to get all guns off the streets wouldn't be any less of a half-assed attempt, though. The NRA lobby is too strong, and they'd never allow such a thing to happen.

Not a half assed attempt... how would you propose they get it all off the streets? with batons and mase? or just kindly asking criminals to hand it over on a public anouncment?

There aren't even a FRACTION of all the homicides COMBINED in the UK as there are GUN HOMICIDES in the US

Are you actually comparing the population of the US with the population of the UK??

they'd have to think about it long and hard were they to commit a homicide with a knife.

because they would be afraid the victim would pull a gun out on there ass.

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Your statement here is why those of us who disagree with you will never be swayed by your arguments. You're living in la la land if you seriously believe this can happen. Law Enforcement can't even keep all the guns out of an apartment complex...man come on.

I mean it ranks right up there with "Why can't we all just get along"? It's never going to happen and you are using that 'fairy-tale logic' in your arguments. But that's ok, it is an enjoyable discussion.

Dude, I've already given you evidence that it can happen...see my posts that reference "The UK, Gun Control in". I'm not sure where "la la land" is, but I don't think it's near the North Atlantic.

Again, I hate to keep sounding like a broken record, but I think if you all read my posts carefully, I've backed up everything I said with some type of evidence.

Okay, next...

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Here's some stats that dispute the fact that the UK has 12 gun related deaths a year lol...and stats on many other countries. Read the article as well, it is interesting and talks about those stats not really meaning a whole lot if you are arguing what we are arguing in this thread.

Long and short of that article is it's possible that I, being an American, hate my neighbor alot more than a British Fellow hates his...lol

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html

In regards to the 12 deaths, please see an earlier post I made to Khaine saying that was exaggeration that obviously wasn't taken as such. Head, may I re-introduce you to brick wall?

Interesting article, and I'll admit it's evidence...but still, it's only one article. If I still cared even one iota about this thread, I could find another ten articles that would back up my statistical analysis.

Okay, next...

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

This is an interesting commentary:

VI. GUNS AND HOMICIDE


Two thirds of all 1992 US murders were accomplished with firearms. Handguns were used in about half of all murders. Sharp instruments were used in 17% of murders and blunt instruments in about 6%.
Gun control laws are stiffer in Canada, and many claim this accounts for the murder rate being lower in Canada than in the United States. 65% of US homicides were committed with firearms, versus 32% in Canada. However, a large American study indicated that liberalized laws for carrying concealed weapons reduced murder rates in the US by 8.5%. US homicide rates in the year 1900 were an estimated 1 per 100,000 -- at a time when anyone of any age could buy a gun. Statistics-gathering may have been less thorough at that time -- and few people had the money or interest to buy guns. But American gun supply (including handguns) doubled from the 1973-1992 period, during which homicide rates remained unchanged (WALL STREET JOURNAL, 4-Aug-2000, p.A10). Politicians in Massachusetts have cited the State's tough gun control laws as the reason for its low murder rates. However, the adjacent states of Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont have some of the least stringent gun control laws in the US, yet the first two have lower murder rates than Massachusetts and the murder rates in Vermont are comparable to those in Massachusetts. Murder rates in Boston increased 50% in 2004 over the previous year, while murder rates in Los Angeles, Miami, Washington and many other major cites saw murder rates decline.

Source: http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

I don't even have to do any research to figure out what's going on with those states mentioned. What's the biggest city with the most crime in Mass? That's right, Boston, a major metropolitan city with a proportionately high crime rate. What's the biggest cities in NH, ME and VT? Oh wait, what is it? What? Yeah, that's right, can't name one, can you? I'd guess (because as I mentioned before, I refuse to do any more research for this thread) that it would be Portland, ME, possibly followed by Manchester, NH (again, just a guess).

I'd be willing to bet that Boston (and to a lesser extent, Worcester, Springfield, Lowell, Lawrence et al) which are all cities in MA with high crime rates are what cause that discrepancy. I'm sure Portland and Manchester aren't anywhere close to Boston in terms of gun homicide per capita. So again, it's an apples to oranges situation; but just to reiterate, (and to go along with the theme of this thread) I refuse to do any research to back this up. I'm just going to say it. If anybody wants to refute my statement with statistical evidence, please be my guest.

In fact, I think the most shocking statement in that entire paragraph is that the murder rates in VT are "comprable to those in" MA. Now, let me start by saying I love VT. I've spent many, many long weekeds there snowboarding and, if I was a bit less attached to the "conveniences" of suburban life, I would consider moving to that state in a second. However, the population of VT is about 22 people and a few cows. (*EXAGGERATION ALERT--the preceding figures are used for comedic effect; the author is FULLY AWARE that the pop. of VT is greater than 22 people and some cows. Please do not cite the preceding passage as evidence that the poster has no idea what he's talking about and then expect to be taken seriously. Thank you--eds) Of these people, most are either farmers or just some of the most laid back, down to earth, wonderful folks I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, so it's a bit puzzling to me why VT's murder rate would be anywhere close to MA's.

Now, this is just a guess, but I'd say the reason for these "comparable rates" is VT's loose gun control laws. That has to be the reason.

Okay, next...

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by westside24

Not a half assed attempt... how would you propose they get it all off the streets? with batons and mase? or just kindly asking criminals to hand it over on a public anouncment?


Are you actually comparing the population of the US with the population of the UK??

because they would be afraid the victim would pull a gun out on there ass.

Ummmmm, westy, I'm not even sure how to respond to your comments. (Except maybe for comment #2--that data in that link is PER CAPITA, not total murders. PER CAPITA in this case means it's per 100,000 people--100,000 in the US vs. 100,000 in the UK. It's comparing apples to apples. So yes, the numbers are completely valid. I think that's the point you were trying to get across, yes?)..

No disrespect intended, but I suspect you might have been confused or I might have been unclear by some of what I wrote. Please go back and reread what I wrote, because really, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in comment #1 or #3. Please let me know if some stuff is still unclear. Barring that, could you possibly reword your comments so that they make sense?

Okay, that's all for now. I'm 100% positive there'll be more later, tho...

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Check this out, just happened in Detroit...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...0328001/&imw=Y

For those who don't want to read the short article, a pizza delivery guy had a CCW license and was delivering a pizza to a 14 and 16 year old who tried to rob him when he got there. The Pizza guy drew his gun in self defense and shot them.

Who knows what would have happened to the pizza guy if he weren't allowed to carry that gun...hmmm.

That's it? I can't believe I wasted five seconds of my life reading that.

That told me nothing. That's not an argument for carrying a concealed weapon...that's only an argument to not be an idiot and deliver pizzas to a vacant lot in a bad part of the city.

Well Hawk, at least you're trying. Nobody can ever take that away from you.

[Gooseneck]

This is great, I was expecting like 3 or 4 replies to this thread and we're at 80 already. Good discussion here guys, and good job at keeping it somewhat civil.

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Gooseneck

Good discussion here guys, and good job at keeping it somewhat civil.

Goose, I concur 100%.

[Dan C]

Here's what it comes down to dandjdad...

Gun laws affect people that obey the laws, not criminals. You figure out a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals without taking away my right to ownership, and I'm behind you on it.

And if you really think it's possible to remove all guns from our society you are living in la-la land. Since you are so familiar with American history & cultural trends, I'm sure you've heard of the Prohibition?

While you work on a way to get guns off the streets of the US, I'm going to bounce on over to nra.org, renew my membership and start looking at what kind of muzzleloader I want to get for this year's hunting season.

Okay, next...

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

That's it? I can't believe I wasted five seconds of my life reading that.

That told me nothing. That's not an argument for carrying a concealed weapon...that's only an argument to not be an idiot and deliver pizzas to a vacant lot in a bad part of the city.

Well Hawk, at least you're trying. Nobody can ever take that away from you.

I guess we see things how we want to see things lol.

In detroit, since there is no good means of mass transit in the city, there are many vacant lots that are run for parking purposes. So i doubt it is that strange of an occurance to have a pizza ordered to a lot...

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

In regards to the 12 deaths, please see an earlier post I made to Khaine saying that was exaggeration that obviously wasn't taken as such. Head, may I re-introduce you to brick wall?

Interesting article, and I'll admit it's evidence...but still, it's only one article. If I still cared even one iota about this thread, I could find another ten articles that would back up my statistical analysis.

Okay, next...

But you haven't found any 10 articles to back your claim up. From the getgo you've been saying you don't care about this thread but here you are on page what, 9? Find some articles then...

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Dan C

Here's what it comes down to dandjdad...

Gun laws affect people that obey the laws, not criminals. You figure out a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals without taking away my right to ownership, and I'm behind you on it.

And if you really think it's possible to remove all guns from our society you are living in la-la land. Since you are so familiar with American history & cultural trends, I'm sure you've heard of the Prohibition?

While you work on a way to get guns off the streets of the US, I'm going to bounce on over to nra.org, renew my membership and start looking at what kind of muzzleloader I want to get for this year's hunting season.

Okay, next...

Dan, did you ever see the movie "Groundhog's Day"? That's what your post is like. You've repeated almost verbatim what Hawk has already said, right down to the "la la land" phrase. (This of course presupposes Dan and Hawk are in fact two DIFFERENT individuals. Has anybody ever seen the two of them together in the same room at the same time? Hmmmmm....) So anyway Dan, I've answered your post already. I will not do it again, and I don't really know how I can take you seriously from here on out. If you want my response, please read past pages. Somehow though, I suspect you don't really care.

So please Dan, and everybody else jumping in now, I implore you, read past posts. Repeating stuff that was written two pages previously just makes it look like the new poster is at best careless and at worst a plagurizer. And I know you don't want to be considered either of these, right Dan?

Okay, next...

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

I guess we see things how we want to see things lol.

In detroit, since there is no good means of mass transit in the city, there are many vacant lots that are run for parking purposes. So i doubt it is that strange of an occurance to have a pizza ordered to a lot...

Fair enough. Okay, I'll take your word for it. Still too cryptic an article to prove anything, tho...

[dandjdad]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

But you haven't found any 10 articles to back your claim up. From the getgo you've been saying you don't care about this thread but here you are on page what, 9? Find some articles then...

Please see my quote from Michael Corleone about four or five pages back. I want to quit this thread, I really do. That's why I refuse to do any research. But then another comment comes out straight from the NRA handbook, and I feel compelled to provide an alternate view. I can't explain the compulsion, I really can't. I wish I could quit this post entirely, but it's like a drug. I would imagine this is what it's like to be a crack addict.

So to summarize, this entire thread is just like one big crack pipe.

[westside24]

Originally Posted by dandjdad

So to summarize, this entire thread is just like one big crack pipe.

LOL Crack is good....

No I was just saying... You said it was a half assed attempt by the law to get drugs and weapons off the streets...

Then what do you propose needs to be done to be a full effort to get them off the streets???

Cause you are living in la-la-land if you think that theres a plan to collect every gun out there.

Im bout to go read my NRA magazine, and watch my NRA video of how the Gatlin gun was created and when it was made popular in warfare, and what it did in the ww's and how it helped defeat our enemies