Buying a Springfield XD45

[Gooseneck]

Sure does. I just so happen to work at a gun shop so I got a bit of a deal. Just bought a $40 tactical light for $8 bucks.

[.V.]

What did you get? A surefire? Those are my favorite except when it's time to buy the replacement bulbs.

[Gooseneck]

Its a Coast LED Lenser. Its a handheld one, not for the gun. Has super white and red LED's for when you want light while remaining undetected, which is a scenerio that will probably never happen. I'm going to be taking my CCW license class in a few weeks. Wont have to keep picking up purchase permits anymore then.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by Gooseneck

CCW license class in a few weeks. Wont have to keep picking up purchase permits anymore then.

Pretty good class. Loaded with information that will save your ass in a self defense situation. Gets rid of a lot of the misinformation that people commonly believe to be truths. I've had my CCW permit for a few years now, in fact I've got to stop by the SO tomorrow to get my replacement because I lost my original and I'm carrying a temporary now. No gun with it, just the permit. I may have to borrow the PPK back before I go on a trip in early October. Won't be a problem since I gave it to my brother with the condition that he lend it back to me anytime I need it and am sane at the same time.

[bodyshop20]

In uk we cant even have high powered air guns without very very strict policing, Even though i have rifles (that i dont use now).
I think America should clamp down on laws that control them.
I agree guns dont kill people (peolpe kill people with guns)
If i was in usa and owned a 50 mm beret where and why would i use it ?
I can hunt in uk with neumatic 32 ft lbs rifle which would kill a big dog so why do you need these high velosity high firing rate guns
Not knocking your laws just a question from over here in uk

[TomG]

I have no problem with people who are well-trained carrying a gun.

I grew up in the country where there were guns by the door and ammo on the shelf below. If we saw someone walking with a gun, we wouldn't worry, we would ask, "What'd you get?" Of course they were hunting guns, shotguns. The rifles and revolvers didn't get used much, except the rifle during deer season.

I have a revolver I enjoy going to the range to shoot. I'm a boy. I like slingshots, archery, anything that propels little things into targets. I'm a boy (half a century old).

A friend of mine has a gun safe so I don't bother spending money on one. My gun is always at his place unless I go to the range.

Gun control is weapon control. Nobody reasonable believes in no weapons and nobody believes in unlimited weapons. Most arguments don't recognize that fact and turn hysterical and, to me, stupid and boring.

I made a bumper sticker, "Gun control is an NRA plot." I've had some guys approach me angrily and then, mid-sentence, realize they don't know what it means. I made the sticker one day after seeing the booming business NRA was doing at a gun show.

Why are there guns in this country? Because there are and there will be well into the future, that's why.

[EliteLift]

Originally Posted by TomG

Why are there guns in this country? Because there are and there will be well into the future, that's why.

Sorry but thats hardly an answer.

and what about the untrained children that happen to find their parents weapons, go to school and shoot inocent people? or emotionally disturbed youth that need the power of a weapon?

FACT: 8 children a day die in murders, suicides and accidents involving guns in the usa

FACT:since John F. Kennedy was assinated more Americans have died from gunshot wounds at home than died in all the wars of the 20th century

FACT:In 2004 there were 11,250 homicides caused by someone shooting someone else, and there were 16,603 suicidal deaths by firearms.

if you look at canada and are gun related homicides, you will find that were generally under the 300 person per year rate.

so have fun with your A4's, AK47's and all that other crap. in the end is it really worth "having fun" shooting tiny peices of lead into targets when the same rights that alow you to do so alow unstable people to have these same weapons.

personally i will give that right up if in the end it saves countless inocent lives.

[TomG]

It was a pragmatic answer, but I'll try again:

We insist on the right to decide whether we can handle the responsibility of potential deadly force at the gun level.

Whew, that kinda sounds complimicated, but I am approaching it from the fact that there are many forms of deadly force around us: swords, spears, knives, cars, pens, ice-picks, ashtrays, home-made bombs, grenades, explosives, etc. We've had a lot of freedom at the gun level, so we want to keep it there.

[bodyshop20]

elitelift yr my don on this one, ask loved ones in us who have lost a child father mum etc from gun death.
Put yr self in their boots and tell me guns are the boom.
If guns was like ilegal so many soles would still walk the earth.

[Gooseneck]

Its the degenerative nature of our society in America that causes all of the violence, not guns. Guns are just a tool, but the real root goes WAY deeper. Our morals in the country have slipped down the drain things have gotten out of control.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by EliteLift

and what about the untrained children that happen to find their parents weapons, go to school and shoot inocent people? or emotionally disturbed youth that need the power of a weapon?

FACT: 8 children a day die in murders, suicides and accidents involving guns in the usa

FACT:since John F. Kennedy was assinated more Americans have died from gunshot wounds at home than died in all the wars of the 20th century

FACT:In 2004 there were 11,250 homicides caused by someone shooting someone else, and there were 16,603 suicidal deaths by firearms.


so have fun with your A4's, AK47's and all that other crap. in the end is it really worth "having fun" shooting tiny peices of lead into targets when the same rights that alow you to do so alow unstable people to have these same weapons.

personally i will give that right up if in the end it saves countless inocent lives.

Re-check the facts. Those are propaganda lies told by Sara Brady and company. Go look up the actual facts. I get updates from the DOJ every year on the truth. The stats are still frightening. However the number of children killed by guns in the US the last year I read the numbers for was under 500. The number killed in swimming pools the same year was over 3000. Part of my job is to write disaster and emergency preparedness plans and one of the unthinkable things I've had to write a plan for is a school shooting situation. That's why I get these updates for my office.

Kids who get ahold of parent's guns are simply the parent's fault. They should train those children in firearms safety at an age appropriate level from an early age. When mine were crawling I used an unloaded pistol on the coffee table and a fly swatter to teach them not to touch. Now both of my girls are crack shots.

Just because I choose not to have guns at this time, am I willing to give up that right? Nope, because that is the one right we have that protects all the others. It was guns in the hands of people who knew how to use them that freed our founding fathers from tyrany. That is why they wrote the right to keep them into our constitution. And don't give me the national guard BS either. That is part of a standing Army, something our founding fathers feared. And if you read the actual constitution, every male between age 17 and I think 56 is required to be able to serve at a moments notice to protect our nation. How will they do that without guns?

On a personal note. I have friends down in Atlanta and some up in Kennisaw - near Atlanta. I won't walk or drive in Atlanta unarmed. Ever, never, not once. I don't even trust the cops there. Kenisaw is a whole different story. Why? Because it's mandatory that every home have a firearm. That is a safe town.

Has posession of a firearm ever saved my own ass? Yes it has. I'm not going into too many details. It's enough to say that not a shot was fired but 5 thugs thought better of using the bats and metal bars they had with them when they got out of the car.

About children and guns. Well, over the last 18 years how many kids have I picked up drowned? Eight. How many shot? Zero. And in this town, almoste every home has multiple firearms.

A good read if anyone is interested from an unbiased researcher (I think he leaned slightly towards anti-gun when he started researching but did an unbiased study) is "More guns, less crime" by Gary Kleck.

[Gooseneck]

Good post Andy, I'll look into that read soon.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by Gooseneck

Good post Andy, I'll look into that read soon.

Just a post, hopefully with some encouragement for folks to do their own reading and not just swallow what HCI, the NRA, Me, or anyone else has to say. But to actually learn the real facts on the issue and then form their own opinions. Which of course everyone has a right to. At least for now they still have that right. Or they have it in the US where they are citizens and not subjects. DOJ statistics are available from several government sources. There are some good books out there and some bad ones.

Even my real life experiences can skew the issue. I live in the mountains of WNC and most of us here were shooting by the time we could stand. This makes gun violence and accidents very unlikely. Shoot (then clean and eat) living things from an early age and see what happens at the other end of the barrel of a high powered rifle and you automatically get respect for that gun and for life that others may not have. An emergency care provider in NYC would likely have different experiences than mine have been.

[TomG]

Andy mentioned swimming pools. What about tricycles? Booze. Who needs booze and the accidents and violence it brings with it? I bet more than eight 17-year-olds die every day because they have the unnecessary right to drive. Do we take that away? Without statistics, I know more teenagers kill each other with cars every year than all the school shootings combined.

I don't particularly agree that our gun ownership will keep our government in line. To me that is a silly argument nowadays. Luckily we have a stronger protection than that. It's the common will - the "democracy is a leaky boat that never sinks" thing.

I'm going to read the book Andy mentioned. The hysteria and wild statistics get boring and irritating.

[Gooseneck]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

I live in the mountains of WNC

So do I. :