Campus SHootings...

[Firehawk]

Do you think as a society we are becoming more desensitized to on-campus shootings now?

Yesterday when I happened to flip through the channels and see on the news that there was a shooting at North Illinois University, my reaction was not the same as the last shooting (with the asian kid). My first reaction was "ANOTHER SHOOTING? What's the world coming to?" And then I flipped the channel. Last time, i actually followed it a little bit.

It seems like there's more and more of these shootings happening in fairly short spans between each other. Why do you think that is, and are we getting more and more desensitized to it?

[Gooseneck]

Another reason why I carry a gun, even into the mall. I do agree with you though. I dont know if its actually being desensitized or just fed up with it. I heard about it last night and was like wtf ?? I just get tired of seeing whats happening to our society, so I turn and walk away most of the time.

[The Flash]

We have and it's sad to think about it but this is the new world we live in. A world of terrorism, shootings, etc. I'm a student at a medium sized campus and it's all but impossible to stop a school shooting. You can take precautions to stop them in high schools but a college campus is so wide open and free that any crazed person can show up. That's easily proved when you consider that the shooter wasn't even a student at the university.

[LiftGirl]

Originally Posted by The Flash

the shooter wasn't even a student at the university.

Apparently, he is a student at the University of Illinois, where I work now and also graduated from. Scary to think what if he would've flipped out here instead! I agree that it's pretty much impossible to stop, especially on college campuses.

[The Flash]

Originally Posted by LiftGirl

Apparently, he is a student at the University of Illinois, where I work now and also graduated from. Scary to think what if he would've flipped out here instead! I agree that it's pretty much impossible to stop, especially on college campuses.

I just read another news story that stated he was indeed a graduate of NIU and was a student there last year. It also claims he was on medication and stopped taking it. It did not mention what medication he was on or what he was suffering from.

[LiftGirl]

Originally Posted by The Flash

I just read another news story that stated he was indeed a graduate of NIU and was a student there last year.

I did not know him.

From the local paper here in Champaign/Urbana


A gunman who opened fire in a crowded lecture hall on the Northern Illinois University campus Thursday afternoon, killing six others and then himself, was a University of Illinois graduate student.
Steven Phillip Kazmierczak, 27, who lived in the Country Fair Apartments at 2108 W. White St., C, came to the UI last spring. He was a student of social work and was an academic hourly worker in the School of Social Work.

[Dan C]

I absolutely believe in desensitization. When I was a teenager and my mom used that as her argument about me listening to death metal I wasn't trying to hear it, but I can see it now.

There is no doubt that the more we are exposed to something (be it in television, music or real life) the more we become accustomed to it, the more it becomes the norm, the more we accept it. That's why I am against most liberal ideals because once you start to lose moral values it becomes a "slippery slope" as to what is acceptable. I mentioned this is the 100 page "gay marriage" discussion a couple weeks back and this is my thinking behind the abortion posts in the other thread.

[Sophie]

I think it depends on your situation. Since I'm on a college campus, with each one, I get more and more sensitized to it. More alert, more cautious, etc. We're in the process of getting a proximity card lock system on our residence halls. I wish they were on the academic buildings too though. A lot of them are like death traps if something were to happen, be it a shooter or a fire.

One of the articles I read said this was the FOURTH school shooting in 2 weeks. What IS the world coming to????

Originally Posted by Dan C

That's why I am against most liberal ideals because once you start to lose moral values it becomes a "slippery slope" as to what is acceptable. I mentioned this is the 100 page "gay marriage" discussion a couple weeks back and this is my thinking behind the abortion posts in the other thread.

I'm not sure I can agree that it is as simple as "liberal vs conservative". Some real life experiences from my perspective:

My wife had a child at 15 and opted to put her up for adoption. The church going conservatives (her mom was in a fundamentalist church) were all over her for getting pregnant (she was a kid who made a mistake, for crying out loud!) yet only one couple of the (what felt like hundreds) pro lifers were willing to adopt her child. (to be fair to my wife - she never considered abortion as an option. She didn't even mention her condition to her mother until the 5th month when it was too late to even consider it) Everybody else just wanted to beat her up. I think partial birth abortions should be banned, but early abortions should be left in place. There are too many people out there that can't raise a child, and too few willing to do it for them.

Gay couples? I've got an uncle who just lost his life partner of 42 years. He had to deal with his partner's alzheimers disease for 8 years before he passed away. They were never in anyone's face about their lifestyle, they kept it quiet and went about their business. Why couldn't they have had a civil union? Who would it have hurt?

Video games???? Wow - talk about desensitizing people, especially when your targets take human form. I'm curious who many of these shooters were avid gamers and what the effect was on their attitudes.

There are no easy answers to the myriad problems our society faces these days. Being involved parents (and it takes two to raise them, that's why God made it so it take two to create a child) goes a long way to helping a child grow up properly. Nothing good and worthwhile is ever easy......and you can never be prepared or stop those who are off into their own little dream world and are out to kill and maim others. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

I'll put away my soap box now <somewhat sheepishly>

Oh, and LiftGirl -- I'm glad you are OK. I'm on a campus too, and there are so many discussions of whether to keep the campus open or not, even how to keep it safe. It is an extremely difficult situation all the way around.

[westside24]

Originally Posted by IronMan

I'm not sure I can agree that it is as simple as "liberal vs conservative". Some real life experiences from my perspective:

My wife had a child at 15 and opted to put her up for adoption. The church going conservatives (her mom was in a fundamentalist church) were all over her for getting pregnant (she was a kid who made a mistake, for crying out loud!) yet only one couple of the (what felt like hundreds) pro lifers were willing to adopt her child. (to be fair to my wife - she never considered abortion as an option. She didn't even mention her condition to her mother until the 5th month when it was too late to even consider it) Everybody else just wanted to beat her up. I think partial birth abortions should be banned, but early abortions should be left in place. There are too many people out there that can't raise a child, and too few willing to do it for them.

Gay couples? I've got an uncle who just lost his life partner of 42 years. He had to deal with his partner's alzheimers disease for 8 years before he passed away. They were never in anyone's face about their lifestyle, they kept it quiet and went about their business. Why couldn't they have had a civil union? Who would it have hurt? .

thank god someone agrees with my ideas... I thoughthis place went completely rpublican on me. I feel people should stay open minded about things.... like what you said about abortions and gays.... big deal if gays wanna be married or eloped or whatnot. on the other hand I hate the rosie odonnells who completely opose our gun rights... I do not own a gun or a conceal weapon permit. but that dont mean I dont want to in the future to protect myself from NIU and VT shooters...besides im just broke right now.

Originally Posted by IronMan

Video games???? Wow - talk about desensitizing people, especially when your targets take human form. I'm curious who many of these shooters were avid gamers and what the effect was on their attitudes.

I dont agree with this. well the desensitizing maybe, but not the effect of peoples attitudes. I happen to love the game san andreas GTA, I love listening to Bone thugs n Harmony, and Eminems Discographies. I think it all boils down to critical thinking... you gota be smarter than the game and the music and movies... they shouldnt influence you to do anything. I never let my peers, some even my best friends pressure me into doing crack/cocaine or pcp , and having random unprotected sex with women and various **** like that. its all self control, which unfortunatley most people do not take the time to train themselves. they dont train there self control. being happy and self control and weightlifting and good eating habts are all somthing you have to train for... you dont just wake up one day or are born with a crapload of self control, and being happy... you could have everything in the world and still be a sad sick individual... and like you said this might have to do more parenting... although, my parents were never around for me... and Id say I turned out ok, I learned how to think for myself. its as simple as that.

[Firehawk]

I think video games is an easy target. How about parenting? Let's blame parents. Makes more sense to me.

[Dan C]

I think you're misunderstanding me Ironman. My post was mearly about desensitization, I didn't intend it to be political in nature, just relating it to my views on politics.

For instance, we agree about the partial birth thing, however, should partial birth abortions be allowed, people will eventually become desensitized to it. Suddenly it isn't so vile. This opens the door to more questionable procedures. (I'm not sure what your wife's pregnancy has to do with this but I do commend her for giving the child up for adoption, and I see your point about people willing to protest but not willing to do anything about it).

And with the example of your uncle, he should have been able to have a union, I am not against that. I don't like the idea of it being called a "marriage" and not because it effects me directly, but how can you tell a married couple they cannot adopt kids? You can't. (And for the record I would rather see a child raised in a gay household rather than being aborted, but I still think it is a questionable environment to raise a child). And if two men are allowed to marry each other, well how about 3 men getting married? Or what if a man wants to marry his sister? Or his sheep?

The point I was trying to make was that liberal ideas are prone to desensitization. Sorry, I kinda blend other topics into this one, but getting back to the original thread, I think Firehawk has a point about us being desensitized to these kinds of things.

But Liftgirl also has a point and that is it depends on how you are related to it.

Westside has a point and that is it comes down to individual responsiblity.

Firehawk has a point and that is it comes down to parenting.

But my point is that our environment influences all of these things. It's not just where we are, how are parents raised us, what we watch on TV, how much self control we have, etc.

It's all of those things, and they are all influenced by our culture / environment / society.

[MAURER]

how about the government staying out of marriage altogether and letting it be up to churches/moques/temples/whatever?

[luke.w]

[quote=Firehawk;398303Why do you think that is, [/QUOTE]




I'd say people are pissed off, and this is their way of showing it.

People have acted out these things for many years, think of 1800's how many people do you think where shooting out their problems back then?

whats differant now is we are all supposed to be safe, however this isn't the case, so how does it stop?

do we go back to the old 1800's when everyones a gun slinger?

What about extra security? military guarding our schools? mutipule military since their may be a "nutcase" in their also?

[westside24]

Originally Posted by luke.w

I'd say people are pissed off, and this is their way of showing it.

People have acted out these things for many years, think of 1800's how many people do you think where shooting out their problems back then?

whats differant now is we are all supposed to be safe, however this isn't the case, so how does it stop?

do we go back to the old 1800's when everyones a gun slinger?

What about extra security? military guarding our schools? mutipule military since their may be a "nutcase" in their also?

sure. in switzerland I believe you are trained to carry a gun at age 16... im not to sure? my ex was a NRA fan and got there magazines, and I remember skimming through it and saw an article on a country forced to be armed! and im sure theyre peace rating is very well.