The Mall

[Merrida]

I totally agree, and heck, I live here! I'm watching my childhood circle down the drain because actually we are doing just that. Technically in this case, because of the rapster's inability to enunciate, now the rest of us who can are forbidden to say "ho" because of what a select few utilize that word for?

This is definitely an example of going too far.

[CF-OC_gal]

Here's an example of protecting North American culture and the type of outrage it will get. This was recently reported on the news about how a town in Quebec welcomes immigrants but lets them know that they have to conform to "our culture" not us to theirs. Now Canada is a little different in that we have a mosaic approach rather than a melting pot approach to immigration like the US does.

Here is a link to one of the many articles about this town and here is an excerpt:

Tap Hérouxville into Google News, U.K., and you'll get 18 pages of headlines. Search for Hérouxville in the French, Italian, or Spanish media, and you'll learn how to spell "beheading" and "stoning" in as many languages. The five-page document that the Hérouxville town council adopted on Jan. 25, purporting, somewhat naively, to inform immigrants of what to expect if they choose to set up shop in this corner of Quebec's snowy heartland (an occurrence that has yet to happen) has become a worldwide embarrassment.

The list of community "standards," which draws on the results of a crude, 20-question opinion poll of 196 area residents, managed to offend practically everyone. Muslims felt they were slurred by advice that the only time you may mask or cover your face in Hérouxville is at Halloween. (Not to mention an express prohibition on stoning, live burning or disfiguring women with acid.) Sikhs saw a slight in the rule that children may not carry any weapons "real or fake, symbolic or not" to school, a clear reference to a high-profile court battle that gave a Montreal boy the right to carry a religious kirpan dagger to school. Jews could find echoes of a recent dust-up between a Hasidic synagogue and a neighbouring YMCA in Outremont in the proclamation that gyms in Hérouxville have windows through which you might glimpse women working out in "appropriate exercise wear." The townsfolk even included a message for born-again Christians: biology is taught in local schools.

[Gooseneck]

I'm all for immigration, hell we're all immigrants after all, but it needs to be done legally. For "American citizens", we should maintain a certain degree of culture and tradition, and not dissipate into a conglomerate of outside influence. America is a lot like a bar, show your ID, pay the entrance fee, party and have a good time within reason or get thrown out the door by staff.

[Merrida]

Gooseneck, well said. I definitely agree. It's spiraling out of control. I've had it with ATM's having to show their displays in both Spanish and English,....that we offer ANYTHING to illegal immigrants other than a kick OUT back to their country (as opposed to those who come here legally). And for those who DO come here legally, if you want to live in America, then adopt the American lifestyle. I'm all for multicultural influences, but if you cannot speak English, are not here legally, if we change our ways to accomodate you select few --then we are in the wrong for pandering to you and we need to step up to the plate. I've had it that there's even a discussion (this should not be up for debate) that English be the official language in this country. I've had it with being required to provide bilingual assistance as a mandatory service (as opposed to an optional one). I've had it that an illegal immigrant was awarded millions of dollars by my state after being in an auto accident and her family was permitted entry to this country as "compensation."

I'm staunch in these feelings, and frankly it fills me with anger that these topics are even a continuing debate, or that they're even on the table to begin with. It's such a no-brainer, yet we've gotten plowed over somehow, and we've lost what it means to be American in the process.

[The Flash]

Originally Posted by .V.

Ya think?

Santa told to slim down for Christmas to 'set a good example' | the Daily Mail

WOW!!! Talk about irony...

[Gooseneck]

How many Senators recently (including Hillary and Obama) voted against making English our official language ?? Its despicable.

[Firehawk]

My girlfriend's kid lives in an area that has alot of arabs, so many so that the School Discrict gives them off all Arabic holidays on top of all Christian holidays.

Originally Posted by Gooseneck

I'm all for immigration, hell we're all immigrants after all, but it needs to be done legally. For "American citizens", we should maintain a certain degree of culture and tradition, and not dissipate into a conglomerate of outside influence. America is a lot like a bar, show your ID, pay the entrance fee, party and have a good time within reason or get thrown out the door by staff.

I agree. It's been a long time since I have night-clubbed it so I enjoyed your analogy and the memory-lane experience it provided me.

And we need immigration in America, always have. Don't agree? Don't eat fruit and mow your own lawn.

[LiftGirl]

Originally Posted by Merrida

I've had it with ATM's having to show their displays in both Spanish and English,....that we offer ANYTHING to illegal immigrants other than a kick OUT back to their country (as opposed to those who come here legally). And for those who DO come here legally, if you want to live in America, then adopt the American lifestyle. I'm all for multicultural influences, but if you cannot speak English, are not here legally, if we change our ways to accomodate you select few --then we are in the wrong for pandering to you and we need to step up to the plate. I've had it that there's even a discussion (this should not be up for debate) that English be the official language in this country. I've had it with being required to provide bilingual assistance as a mandatory service (as opposed to an optional one).

I have no problem with someone speaking their culture's language at home or teaching it to their children, but what's wrong with also learning English?

If we, using Merrida's example, put ATMs in Spanish as well as English, then do we also need to put them in East South African Swahili whatever, if someone moves in who speaks that language? There are simply too many languages all over the world for us to use them all, and it isn't fair to select only a few.

[Maxgain]

Originally Posted by LiftGirl

If we, using Merrida's example, put ATMs in Spanish as well as English, then do we also need to put them in East South African Swahili whatever, if someone moves in who speaks that language? There are simply too many languages all over the world for us to use them all, and it isn't fair to select only a few.

Of course it is fair to select a few. You go by the majorities. Everyone knows that Spanish is a big language in America even thousands of miles away.

In the community (a town of 20,000) I live there are 79 different nationalities. The only recognised language were English and some Irish. One population that has stood out though is the huge influx of Polish which vastly out numbers all other influxes.

Therefroe for the purposes of cop on good business sense or decency to hit the largest populations alot of communications will be in Polish and English. Why would anyone bother to put it in Sahili to incorporate a population who do not even make a statistical difference such as the Swahilis

[Merrida]

Originally Posted by LiftGirl

If we, using Merrida's example, put ATMs in Spanish as well as English, then do we also need to put them in East South African Swahili whatever, if someone moves in who speaks that language? There are simply too many languages all over the world for us to use them all, and it isn't fair to select only a few.

No, I said I'm sick of having our ATM's in multiple languages.

I firmly believe that EVERYTHING should be in ENGLISH,....period, end of story, no discussion, no debate, no "what if's," no "I just moved here and can't read your English signs," -- tough patooties. English should be our official (and only) language. I'm sick of being required to provide bilingual ANYTHING here.

I think it's nice if we offer it as an alternative, a perk, but NOT as a requirement. This angers me to my core that we've been forced to post signs, speak, and be overly tolerant of non-English speaking, non-English reading/writing in this country.

We should NOT force our teachers to learn new languages because of the select few in class. (Those select few should be taking English as a 2nd Language FIRST until they're ready to become citizens of this country,....it should be required!) You want to live here, sure maintain your culture, but learn to speak the damn language or get the hell out.

And I'm not the least bit sorry for how I feel or how blunt I put that. This issue sticks in my craw and is one of several topics that cause my blood to boil.

[Gooseneck]

You said Merrida, couldnt agree with you more. I work with a couple Mexicans who've gotten their citizenship and speak very fluent English now. I have much respect for people who can do that.

[Merrida]

What bugs me about it is this: So supposedly you (ie: the foreigners who want to live in this country) want to relocate and make homes in this country. Why? If we're so great, great enough for you want to make this your home,...then why is it that you're not only clinging to your culture (again, no problem with that, except when it crosses over and impedes and over-rules the culture of America) and not doing what is American? ....not becoming American.

I never cared for the terms of African American, Asian American, Mexican American, or any other combination of "American" labeling. If you come to America, are a legal citizen, regardless of your background, you want to be here enough, fulfill the legal requirements....you then become "American," plain and simple. That doesn't proclude you from identifying yourself in other areas according to your ancestry, but to hyphenate your geneology,....what's the damn point? If that part of you is something you want to cling onto when in America, why are you here to begin with?

I love different cultures, and I find them incredibly appealing. I feel it's important for me to clarify that, because it IS an appeal of mine. My soap box ranting has to do with bastardizing what it means to be American. I welcome legal immigrants who pay their taxes, learn English, speak English, and still maintain their culture, -- that's a beautiful thing. But illegals coming in, getting jobs, not speaking our language (oh wait, I forgot, we don't have English as an official American language anymore do we?),....while those of us BORN here don't even get some of these priviledges.

How can this happen? How did this happen? Why is it being permitted to keep happening?

I sincerely do not understand it.

This post of mine may be picked apart, but I'm hoping I explained my opinion well enough to clarify that I have a symbiotic relationship with multiculturalism,....I just feel there should be a zero tolerance for illegal immigration, period,....they shouldn't even be remotely possible to get a license, work, and force us Americans to change our established way of running business to accomodate their inabilities to do what it takes to be a legal American.

End of ramble (for now).

[arbit]

Originally Posted by Merrida

You want to live here, sure maintain your culture, but learn to speak the damn language or get the hell out.

Learning language takes time. I for one am a bit glad for this multi-lingual thing. I think having just language is bad. Multiple languages expose people to different cultures, it makes people realise there are people with very different viewpoints.

That being said, I think its retarded that English isnt the official language.
I also think knowing english should be requirement for american citizenship.
This "happy holdays" crap is equally retarded.

Originally Posted by Merrida

I never cared for the terms of African American, Asian American, Mexican American, or any other combination of "American" labeling. If you come to America, are a legal citizen, regardless of your background, you want to be here enough, fulfill the legal requirements....you then become "American," plain and simple. That doesn't proclude you from identifying yourself in other areas according to your ancestry, but to hyphenate your geneology,....what's the damn point? If that part of you is something you want to cling onto when in America, why are you here to begin with?

Belive me, immigrants would like nothing better than to be labelled just plain old americans.
But the sad truth is, caucasian-americans never let them forget that they are different. First there were n****rs, then blacks, chinese and so on.

Finally, I think its in America's best interest to be a melting pot, where different cultures co-exist and not just be a rigid culture where everyone is forced to have white american values.
If immigrants are think US is so great as to move here then why do we still maintain our old culture ? Because we think that while America is great, we believe it can be made greater by infusing it with the best from other cultures.

[Merrida]

Arbit, as I mentioned in my previous post, I do not have a problem with multi-culturism, and in fact a great deal of my life is infused with other cultures. My point is: Other cultures should be like sprinkles on the ice cream, not become the ice cream. It shouldn't be mandatory that we have bilingual people at every place of business, that we have signs in English and Spanish. I also think that ALL illegal immigrants should be given the boot. I also believe we should continue to have immigration, but legally so, and that channels must be followed. People sneaking into our boarders yet getting more fringe benefits than I do, when I was born here and have been working here, is downright wrong, and in fact I thought it was illegal, - ergo the term: "Illegal Immigrant." Why we employ them, feed them, pay them money, give them health insurance,.....while my grandparents who came here legally and had to learn the language and towards the end of their lives could barely afford the insurance these illegal immigrants are being given for free,...that is just wrong. Why do we not only tolerate, but actually support illegal immigrants,....so much so that we are letting people live in this country (and HOW do they do that I'd like to know) who don't speak English? WE support them, that's how!

African Americans, Asian Americans, etc., etc.,...they do NOT want to be called "just Americans." If we refer to people as black, white, asian,...we are brought to court or accused of racism. THEY are the ones that want the hyphenated "American" attached to their "identity." It isn't imposed by the white/caucasian Americans.

Considering we all came from Africa to begin with, me, as a white girl, sure can't go around calling myself African American.....

Finally please understand, that I am all for the multiculturalism that makes America what it is. What I am not for is it being forced down my throat and having to alter what made this country what it is so that now WE don't have any identity (we being Americans who are not immigrants).