When you're willing to go to jail....

[Merrida]

Two houses down from us lives a mother and her son. Her son is a Marine (which due to my own history makes this particularly painful because I so want to give carte blanche to those with military affiliations)....and he beats his dog.

I've met the dog, and love him. He's only a year and a half old, and he's beautiful, he's friendly, he craves affection and attention. But if you move around him he hunkers down, and you can tell he's afraid of being kicked or beaten. I've been around enough abused animals to know (I used to rescue them, and all my animals that I've owned since I was a child have all been rescued).

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know when a dog's been beaten. To see this beautiful, freindly, loving pup just hunker down, cower, close his eyes, occasionally pee from fear,.... He likes me and lets me close to him, but I still have to move very slowly. He doesn't like hands (he's afraid of them).

I want to steal this dog. I want to put a note on his door that just says: Hey, if you ever need a new home for your dog, I'll be happy to take him for you. But I can't do anything like that.

I want to take this dog, give him a good home with me. Having worked for the SPCA and animal control I know that even if I caught him in the act, they rescue animals, and if no home is found within a given period of time, the animals are killed. People think of animal control officers as benevolent, but I've known MANY across this entire state (as I've lived all over the state) and most actually dislike animals and treat them horribly.

Even the rescue shelters (other than no-kill shelters) are inhumane.

So even if I get this dog rescued, if I didn't take him I can be sure he'd be dead within a week....especially because he isn't that cute little 12 week old puppy that some irresponsible kid wants for Christmas that mom and dad will buy and the kid ends up neglecting after a month, and another vicious cycle begins.

I want to take that dog and rescue it and give it a proper home. What I know is going on in that home with that dog is unforgiveable. Not to mention if caught in the act, it's a crime.

I believe people should have to qualify (with stringent protocol) not only to own pets, but that they should also have to pass rigorous testing, and also be licensed, to procreate. For every child,....another battery of tests. For every pet,...another battery of tests.

I know already that probably the majority of people here just viewed this post as incredibly extremist. But being witness to too many unwanted children, too many unfit parents, and too many people who do not adequately care for their pets,....I now feel this way. Abuse is not a tolerable behavior: To spouses, S/O's, children, pets......

I'm overzealous, but prefer to think of it as highly passionate about ANYTHING I feel invested in, and just as protective over every thing and every body I care about.

[EliteLift]

I feel your anger merrida. thats no way to treat any animal in any circumstance.

as far as being licenced to own a pet might not be a bad idea, the only problim is it would be extreamly hard to enforce.

[Khaine]

Originally Posted by Merrida

I believe people should have to qualify (with stringent protocol) not only to own pets, but that they should also have to pass rigorous testing, and also be licensed, to procreate.

'Having children is not a right'

I thought I was the only one...

[arbit]

Originally Posted by Khaine

'Having children is not a right'

I thought I was the only one...

Heck no. Judge judy was on Larry King the other day and she was sayign the same thing, that people need liscence to cut hair, drive etc, but not to have kids.

Ugh, Merrida, how do you know its the son (and not the mother) who is abusing the dog ?

[maverick]

I'm with ya on this one merrida, and i understand how you recognize abuse in animals. I adopted a dog from a no-kill shelter about 2 years. Shelter is an over-statement, it was actually an incredible 15 year old girl who converted her basement into 3 kennels. He was a stray, no history, but clearly was owned by someone. I remember my heart sinking the first day I brought him home. He peed on the couch and I pointed my finger at him and said no forcefully, but without raising my voice. He ran out of the room, downstairs, and hid in a corner with his tail between his legs. He would try to hide whenever I approached. I got a similar response when I picked up a baseball bat. Just so I don't bum everyone out, he is now spoiled rotten by my wife and absolutely loves life now.

Merrida, have you contacted the no-kill shelters in the area? If they are full, do a little digging to see if there are any local, smaller shelters, like the one I mentioned, that might take him in. If you have some place to take him, you don't have to worry about calling animal rights people and him ending up in a kill shelter.

[arbit]

So y'all think kill-shelters are horrible, yet are ok with eating meat ?

[Merrida]

Originally Posted by Khaine

'Having children is not a right'

I thought I was the only one...

You're definitely not alone. In addition to the "English as an official language" stance, and my hot-blooded gripes about illegal immigration, another two (of many) things I feel passionate about are: procreation and animals.

I think we should pay people to get sterilized. (I'm waiting for the cyber bomb to fall on me now). I believe that should be an option available to people, and that we pay them, not the other way around, for anyone willing to get sterilized.

I firmly believe that before people are permitted to procreate they should be investigated, be tested, and by a pannel of people, be deemed worthy of bearing children. I believe they should have to do this for every child they wish to bring into this world and I also have no problem with spot checks being performed on the public randomly (again I wait for the bomb to fall on me). I do believe when we have children, we have a right to raise them according to our own belief system, not someone else's belief system.

I do not think we should pay women to be baby factories. These women on welfare who only stay on welfare as long as they're either pregnant or have a child under 2 is just reinforcing them to go out and randomly get pregnant and have herds of children in housing which,.....we pay for, eating food which,....we pay for. There is no incentive. If there was a 2 child cut-off, then if these women get pregnant again, they're on their own....we take the children from them, they're put in foster homes, up for adoption, and the women no longer receive any financial support but must get a job and pay for their own living arrangements (all because they couldn't keep it in their pants).... They'd be more careful and wouldn't procreate after 2 kids just for the sake of qualifying for welfare. Her other option would be: We'll pay you to get sterilized,-- the caveat being: Time for school, your diploma, some technical training not to exceed 2 years, and then you get a job where you must then pay for 60% of your housing and food (again, with a time limit)....then 100%. By then, a sufficient number of years have passed where you should be able to support yourself.

Just because women can get pregnant doesn't mean they should.

It's a priviledge to bring children into this world, and it's a lot of responsibility (emotionally, physically, and financially) to raise them. It is not a right just because the man's sperm is viable and the woman's ovaries are ready. That does not make it okay. As long as we have contraception, there is no reason for "woops, I'm pregnant."

My feelings are the same with pets, which is why I believe in spaying and neutering, and also why I make the personal choice to rescue animals not pay breeders who inbreed the characteristics they deem appealing into their animals.

And I do wish people were required to get a license to own a pet, any pet, and also I have no problem with spot checks.

The reason I do not adopt this dog or call any animal shelter is because I have not seen this dog being beaten. I KNOW he is (we all know when a dog has been abused, as was pointed out)....and this guy is an all-roud twit, I hate to say. I see how he treats his girlfriend (also, she's this beautiful little thing, and the only reason I can see her sticking around with him is because she's young and niave, and impressed by this large good looking Marine,...just my opinion and observation after being neighbors with the son and mother for so long and simply keeping an eye out). Young girls are so easily impressed (which makes them easy fodder,...all they have to do is keep their mouth shut, laugh at the jokes, and look nice all the time,...they're not kept around for their contributions).

I want to sweep this dog up and just take him home. It makes me literally cry when I see this dog, and watch him cower. My heart breaks.

[Merrida]

Originally Posted by arbit

So y'all think kill-shelters are horrible, yet are ok with eating meat ?

I do not eat the dogs they kill.

Shelters, by definition, are supposed to house PETS (not food). The general population who doesn't know any better operates under great misinformation about what goes on in shelters and how the animals are treated.

[maverick]

Originally Posted by arbit

So y'all think kill-shelters are horrible, yet are ok with eating meat ?

I'll quote Jules Winfield:

"Dogs have personality, and personality goes a long way".

[Gooseneck]

See if you can video tape him beating the dog, that can be all the ammo you need to take down that particular Marine.

Originally Posted by Merrida

I think we should pay people to get sterilized. (I'm waiting for the cyber bomb to fall on me now). I believe that should be an option available to people, and that we pay them, not the other way around, for anyone willing to get sterilized.

I firmly believe that before people are permitted to procreate they should be investigated, be tested, and by a pannel of people, be deemed worthy of bearing children. I believe they should have to do this for every child they wish to bring into this world and I also have no problem with spot checks being performed on the public randomly (again I wait for the bomb to fall on me). I do believe when we have children, we have a right to raise them according to our own belief system, not someone else's belief system.

Merrida, these statements are deserving of their own thread for serious discussion. I won't make any comments on your dog abuse thread and I can appreciate your zeal.

Zeal can easily be misdirected or inefficiently distributed among the competing societal needs that exist. That's also a separate thread on a different day.

My closing advice is to don't steal the dog. It is just not doggone right (no pun intended).

[Dan C]

Originally Posted by Merrida

You're definitely not alone. In addition to the "English as an official language" stance, and my hot-blooded gripes about illegal immigration, another two (of many) things I feel passionate about are: procreation and animals.

I think we should pay people to get sterilized. (I'm waiting for the cyber bomb to fall on me now). I believe that should be an option available to people, and that we pay them, not the other way around, for anyone willing to get sterilized.

I firmly believe that before people are permitted to procreate they should be investigated, be tested, and by a pannel of people, be deemed worthy of bearing children. I believe they should have to do this for every child they wish to bring into this world and I also have no problem with spot checks being performed on the public randomly (again I wait for the bomb to fall on me). I do believe when we have children, we have a right to raise them according to our own belief system, not someone else's belief system.

I do not think we should pay women to be baby factories. These women on welfare who only stay on welfare as long as they're either pregnant or have a child under 2 is just reinforcing them to go out and randomly get pregnant and have herds of children in housing which,.....we pay for, eating food which,....we pay for. There is no incentive. If there was a 2 child cut-off, then if these women get pregnant again, they're on their own....we take the children from them, they're put in foster homes, up for adoption, and the women no longer receive any financial support but must get a job and pay for their own living arrangements (all because they couldn't keep it in their pants).... They'd be more careful and wouldn't procreate after 2 kids just for the sake of qualifying for welfare. Her other option would be: We'll pay you to get sterilized,-- the caveat being: Time for school, your diploma, some technical training not to exceed 2 years, and then you get a job where you must then pay for 60% of your housing and food (again, with a time limit)....then 100%. By then, a sufficient number of years have passed where you should be able to support yourself.

Just because women can get pregnant doesn't mean they should.

It's a priviledge to bring children into this world, and it's a lot of responsibility (emotionally, physically, and financially) to raise them. It is not a right just because the man's sperm is viable and the woman's ovaries are ready. That does not make it okay. As long as we have contraception, there is no reason for "woops, I'm pregnant."

My feelings are the same with pets, which is why I believe in spaying and neutering, and also why I make the personal choice to rescue animals not pay breeders who inbreed the characteristics they deem appealing into their animals.

And I do wish people were required to get a license to own a pet, any pet, and also I have no problem with spot checks.

The reason I do not adopt this dog or call any animal shelter is because I have not seen this dog being beaten. I KNOW he is (we all know when a dog has been abused, as was pointed out)....and this guy is an all-roud twit, I hate to say. I see how he treats his girlfriend (also, she's this beautiful little thing, and the only reason I can see her sticking around with him is because she's young and niave, and impressed by this large good looking Marine,...just my opinion and observation after being neighbors with the son and mother for so long and simply keeping an eye out). Young girls are so easily impressed (which makes them easy fodder,...all they have to do is keep their mouth shut, laugh at the jokes, and look nice all the time,...they're not kept around for their contributions).

I want to sweep this dog up and just take him home. It makes me literally cry when I see this dog, and watch him cower. My heart breaks.

I'm with you on English as the official language.

I've also got my own reserves about illegal immigration as well.

I like the idea of paying people to get sterilized (though should they seek to reverse the procedure they would need to repay that money in addition to the cost of the reversal procedure).

However, I don't think it's right for the government to tell anyone who can and cannot get pregnant. No screening, no investigations, no panel of people determining who is fit and who is not (who are they to judge anyway?).

Now, I fully agree that some people should just strait NOT have children, but no one has the right to tell these people they cannot. Besides, I've known many of girls whose life was turned around by an unexpected pregnancy. Their child literally saved their lives.

Though I am against government intervention in this regard, they do need to step up and really take a look at who they are giving financial assistance to. As you've noted, it's far too easy to take advantage of the system.

[Firehawk]

Dan what do you think about CPS? What I mean is, do you feel it is right for the govt to tell people how they can discipline their children? Obviously this opens up a heavy debate on what is reasonable and what is abusive. Over the recent years, that definition has changed drastically. Getting the belt is now considered abuse and warrants a judge to pull your children away. When I was a kid, it was how people disciplined. In this day many believe you should never have to ever lay a hand on your kid.

I think parents and non parents will have a different view as well, probably one of which changed when they weren't parents, or those that have become parents.

I just ask because of what you said about the government interfering with pregnancy (which I agree with you on).

[Merrida]

Originally Posted by pierini

My closing advice is to don't steal the dog. It is just not doggone right (no pun intended).

Oh dear Lord, I would never do such a thing. I don't break the law. I'm speaking from a place of great emotion because I feel so helpless, as well as so angry, so lost, so frustrated.

I do not own a video camera, but it is a clever idea to video tape this guy abusing this dog to use as ammo.

Right now, all I have to go on is common sense, observation, and more than one person who has drawn the same conclusion (ie: all the neighbors) based on how this dog responds when approached by people, and when any of us raise our hands to pet him or make sudden movements.

It's sad to see how hungry he is for pure affection, he just loves it (once you take the patience to move slow and spend the time with him so he can trust your intentions). When his owner calls him, you can tell he feels torn, wanting to stay & receive safe affection, but cowering as he moves away towards the owner.

I'd never steal the dog pierini, but it's a fantasy I play out in my head: One in which I rescue this poor dog and give it a good home. I can dream.

Originally Posted by Merrida

I'm speaking from a place of great emotion because I feel so helpless, as well as so angry, so lost, so frustrated.

Query and growth food for thought: do you have a similar feeling when you see parents being abusive towards their children? What about an elder-abuse situation? Might be too personal so no post reply is necessary.