Cortisol Question...

[Par Deus]

Originally Posted by IronMan

How does fat loss in the waist back up the theory of blocking cortisol? Fat loss, certainly, but as a cortisol block? Explain to me what I am missing?!? I'm under the impression that cortisol eats muscle, not fat. And 7-oxo dhea is strongly indicated in aiding fat loss. You've got me totally lost on how this backs the theory....

My entire article was about exactly this.

VAT accumulation is caused by cortisol.

7-oxo, according to my theory, inhibits formation of cortisol.

Ab-Solved delivers 7-oxo to VAT.

A drastic, rapid reduction in waist size (and, an inch, in 1-2 weeks, is pretty drastic, for people already pretty lean) is what one would expect if all of the above were true.

How many people, who were lean, to start, have you heard of losing an inch off of their waist with a week or two of 7-oxo, orally???

[dsade]

Originally Posted by IronMan

Ok, but how are 3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone (7-oxo dhea) and 11beta-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11beta-HSD) considered the same product?

They are not considered the same product. The 11beta HSD enzyme is what converts inactive Cortisone in the active Cortisol and back again, depending on if it is donating or receiving electrons (reducing or oxidizing). Cortisone is reduced (gain of electrons) to form Cortisol, and vice-versa. So, Cortisol loses electrons (is oxidized) to the 11b-HSD to form inactive cortisone.

DHEA competes with Cortisol to give its electrons to the 11B-HSD enzyme, tipping it's activity to oxidation at the expense of reduction activity. The resulting product is called 7a-OH DHEA. Now, 7-oxo DHEA and 7a-OH DHEA, through the activity of the 11b-HSD, can convert to one another, back and forth. Basically, 7-oxo is reduced to form 7a-OH, and also vice versa - by the very same enzyme that acts on Cortisone/Cortisol.

As you can see, 7-oxo preferentially reacts with the 11b-HSD, at the expense of Cortisone, reducing the levels of active cortisol in the visceral adipose tissues.

Or, simplified, 7-oxo DHEA hogs all the electrons from the 11b-HSD, rendering it incapable of converting Cortisone to Cortisol.

You've got me understanding the theory much better now (and, perhaps even making me a believer). Thank you for your patience.

The action decribed is fat related. Will the cortisol suppression prevent, or interfer with, muscle breakdown? Reason I'm asking is that I believe the original intent of the post was about cortisol supression to prevent muscle catabolism.

[dsade]

Par can correct me if I am mistaken, but I think the effectiveness mainly lies in preventing the formation of cortisol in adipose (which prevents the shuttling of nutrients in and out of the adipose tissue, instead of towards muscle ).

With cortisol not hampering muscle's uptake of nutrients by diverting it to fat cells, the overall effect would either be anti-catabolic, or preventing fat accumulation- depending on whether you were cutting or bulking.

If you are asking what the direct effect on muscle tissue is, I wish I could give you a better answer.

I appreciate the honesty in your answer dsade. It shows a great deal of integrity, which is much more important in my book than a black and white answer.

[Par Deus]

Originally Posted by IronMan

I appreciate the honesty in your answer dsade. It shows a great deal of integrity, which is much more important in my book than a black and white answer.

The 11beta-HSD complex is expressed as highly in skeletal muscle as in liver and adipose -- it also upregulates in the presence of glucocorticoids, just as with those tissues, so the potential is certainly there.

Instances where it would be likely helpful, in muscle:

1) The obese (especially if male)

2) The really stressed, especially if you have a decent bit of fat, on you (15%+ for males, 25% for females)

3) Perhaps, following an adrogen cycle, if cortisol levels and binding are elevated (everyone states this as fact, but I have not actually researched it)

4) Perhaps on a diet, as it makes eveolutionary sense for the body to prevent nutrient uptake and anabolism, in skeletal muscle, if it perceives itself as starving.

In all instances, there are good reasons to use it on the abs (as VAT is sort of the headquarters for problems) as well as locally, as conversion does take place in the muscle tissue. I would water it down by 1/2, if you use on muscle, so you can spread it out into a nice, thin layer.

[Goon]

Originally Posted by Par Deus

The 11beta-HSD complex is expressed as highly in skeletal muscle as in liver and adipose -- it also upregulates in the presence of glucocorticoids, just as with those tissues, so the potential is certainly there.

Instances where it would be likely helpful, in muscle:

1) The obese (especially if male)

2) The really stressed, especially if you have a decent bit of fat, on you (15%+ for males, 25% for females)

3) Perhaps, following an adrogen cycle, if cortisol levels and binding are elevated (everyone states this as fact, but I have not actually researched it)

4) Perhaps on a diet, as it makes eveolutionary sense for the body to prevent nutrient uptake and anabolism, in skeletal muscle, if it perceives itself as starving.

In all instances, there are good reasons to use it on the abs (as VAT is sort of the headquarters for problems) as well as locally, as conversion does take place in the muscle tissue. I would water it down by 1/2, if you use on muscle, so you can spread it out into a nice, thin layer.

Would it be more beneficial to take during a cutting or bulking phase, or indifferent? And, at what time of the day would it be best to take?

[Par Deus]

Originally Posted by Goon

Would it be more beneficial to take during a cutting or bulking phase, or indifferent? And, at what time of the day would it be best to take?

Pretty indifferent, in regard to cutting or bulking. Should be taken 2 times per day, 12 hours apart.