Cortisol Question...

[Sizzle]

what other supplements/vitamins besides vitamin C help suppress cortisol secretion? and also whats a good reported daily amount of vitamin C? i take a 1000 mg capsule everyday and drink orange juice all through the day, but is that enough to stop most cortisol at its tracks?

what else works?

thanks

- sizzle

[Par Deus]

Originally Posted by Sizzle

what other supplements/vitamins besides vitamin C help suppress cortisol secretion? and also whats a good reported daily amount of vitamin C? i take a 1000 mg capsule everyday and drink orange juice all through the day, but is that enough to stop most cortisol at its tracks?

what else works?

7-oxo, though you need to use it topically, or it will be converted to the 7-alpha-OH compound, in the liver, which will increase the reductase actvity of the 11beta-HSD enzyme complex in target tissues(i.e. covert inactive cortisone into active cortisol, rather than vice-versa)

Here are a bunch of posts on the use of phosphatydilserine in the use of cortisol control.

Par Deus: I've heard of using 7-keto for weight loss, but cortisol control? That is news to me. Any literature, studies, etc that you can point me to on that? Thanks!

[Par Deus]

Originally Posted by IronMan

Here are a bunch of posts on the use of phosphatydilserine in the use of cortisol control.

Par Deus: I've heard of using 7-keto for weight loss, but cortisol control? That is news to me. Any literature, studies, etc that you can point me to on that? Thanks!

There is no direct literature on it - decent bit of indirect stuff, which is compiled in the FL7/Ab-Solved write-up that will appear tomorrow, in the next issue of our magazine.

[dsade]

Anecdotally, I know I have read a lot of feedback from people saying they feel more "relaxed" when using FL7 or absolved. I would assume this to be from cortisol supression.

So all those companies that ran to oral 7-oxo as their ephedrine replacement (I see them all over the grocery stores lately) are actually doing more harm?

I have not found anything that indicateds it supresses cortisol. It is a thermogenic, enhances immune function, and also supports memory and cognitive functions. This could explain the "relaxed" feeling users get. As for there being no "direct literature" or studies on cortisol supression, how can an article be written regarding its use for such purposes? Leads me to believe that this "article" in your "magazine" is going to be nothing other than a sales pitch, especially because you cover your fanny by saying there is a "decent bit of indirect stuff".

[CJNY]

While not nutritional supplements, yoga, meditation and similar activities have been shown to suppress cortisol. Generally, anything that leads to lower mental stress than most people deal with on a day to day basis will probably help. And, in addition to carrying many other health benefits, these things are usually free.

[dsade]

DHEA is already shown to be an anti-glucocorticoid. The references I have seen show 7-keto DHEA to be effective, but moreso because it is unable to be metabolized into active hormones (estrogens and androgens)

I will try to find links I have and post them.

[dsade]

from a James South, MA article on DHEA/7-Keto DHEA
http://www.smartnutrition.info/JamesSouth-DHEA.htm

DHEA: NATURAL COUNTER-REGULTOR OF CORTISOL

The emphasis on the DHEA/cortisol ratio as a key health determinant is hardly unique to the Army Ranger and Khorram studies just described. Most of the papers I reviewed to prepare this article specifically mention DHEA's anti-glucocorticoid (i.e. anti-cortisol) action and/or the DHEA/cortisol ratio as key factors in DHEA's benefits. The following assessment by Regelson and Kalimi, veteran DHEA researchers, is somewhat typical of the DHEA literature: "Among the myriad of biological actions, the anti-glucocorticoid properties of DHEA are now clearly emerging. In fact the anti-glucocorticoid action of DHEA may explain many of the seemingly diverse biological activities of DHEA, such as its effects on stress, obesity, diabetes, immune response and protection against acute lethal viral infections."

In fact, even Regelson and Kalimi's enumeration of areas of biological effect of the antagonistic action of DHEA and cortisol does not go far enough. I listed 14 of the key properties of cortisol (excess) action - i.e. its "dark side." As can be seen from Table 1, DHEA has actions opposite to cortisol in all 14 areas listed. It thus becomes obvious that one of the key functions of DHEA is to serve as a counter-regulator to cortisol - to "put the brakes on the cortisol gas pedal," as it were - so that cortisol's catabolic (tissue-destroying) actions do not get out of control. And since cortisol tends to remain constant or increase with age (cortisol also increases dramatically with severe/prolonged stress), while DHEA drops dramatically with age/stress, it is obvious that there is a general life-long, progressively worsening failure of DHEA to oppose the catabolic excesses of cortisol.

B. Sears calls excess cortisol the "second pillar of aging", (12) while Dilman and Dean also focus on the general age-related failure of human physiology to control cortisol levels. (13)
Thus, it should be clear that maintaining a lifelong high DHEA /low cortisol ratio is a key anti-aging strategy. And the simplest way to maintain high blood levels of DHEA from the 30's onwards is through DHEA supplementation.
The biggest concern over DHEA supplementation repeatedly raised in the DHEA scientific literature is the issue of androgen/estrogen production from DHEA. Various tissues can locally convert DHEA to either androgens (testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, androstenedione) or estrogens (estrone, estradiol). Many DHEA studies report significant androgen increases in women, even at the relatively low dose of 50 mg. (1, 8, 18, 19, 21) Increased androgen levels in women may relate not only to the mild effects of excess facial hair and acne, but to the more serious issues of abdominal obesity, hyper-glycemia and insulin resistance. (26) And one report found a decreased testosterone level in men, combined with an increase in estradiol, hardly ideal for a man's health. (21) Fortunately, a natural metabolite of DHEA, normally found in the human body, and which cannot be bio-transformed into androgens or estrogens, (28) is now available. And preliminary evidence indicates this "new" DHEA metabolite may be even more potent than DHEA.
*****

Have to head out right now, will find more later

[Sizzle]

whats the best DHEA supplement in the market right now? is DHEA sold over the counter?

appreciate dsade u always come through. seem to really know ur stuff. i'd be interested to know what ur stacking right now and what supps u used before in the past and ur experiences with them.

[dsade]

whoops, the bottom got cut off...

7-keto DHEA (also called "7-oxo DHEA,)" is almost identical in structure to DHEA. Human skin (and other tissues) contain enzymes that convert DHEA to 7- keto DHEA in a two-stage process. (27) (Interestingly, many animal experiments with DHEA get best results if the DHEA is given subcutaneously, hinting at skin DHEA bio-processing.) Research into 7- keto DHEA has been conducted primarily by Dr. Henry Lardy and associates at the University of Wisconsin. (28, 29, 30) Based on his research, Lardy has been granted various patents on the use of 7KD, including immune enhancement/modulation, Alzheimer's treatment and weight loss.
*********
From the gist of this, and other papers I have seen (though, like was said, actual studies are hard to find), is that 7-keto (or 7-oxo, same thing) DHEA is more effective than DHEA, without any of the side effects.

I did find one study that showed that it worked by competing with the 11 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme, which control the conversion of cortisone (inactive) to cortisol (active, and damaging).

I also found some information linking 7-oxo with stimulation of the thyroid that I will try to post when I get a chance.

[Maxima]

I read that Garlic suppresses cortisol as well as Aspirin.

Another one is clenbuterol

[Sizzle]

how well do cortisol blockers work? has anyone tried them?

[Par Deus]

Originally Posted by Sizzle

how well do cortisol blockers work? has anyone tried them?

Finally have the write-up on cortisol and 7-oxo up:

http://www.avantlabs.com/page.php?pageID=170&issueID=15

I will gladly address any questions from the good readers of this forum.

desade, Par Deus, I have a tough time believing "papers" that are published to sell products. desade, the paper by James South is there obviously to sell a product. Par Deus, your link doesn't appear to work so I can't comment on it.

The effects and abilities of 7 keto appear to me to be overstated in the supression of cortisol. Of course, I may be wrong.....but I would rather see unbiased studies rather than product literature.