Creatine - Acidic Liquids Diminish Effectiveness?

[Revolver]

I've checked over every relevant thread, and all that I can find are passing references to the subject.

I've heard that creatine's effects are diminished by acidic juices. No idea if there's any truth to this, but it could present a problem for some people, yeah?

I just started using creatine a few days ago, and I'm currently loading. I created one of those dextrose/water solutions (of course, I don't mix in the creatine until the time of ingestion... often, I just put the creatine on my tongue, throw in the sugar solution, swallow the still-powdery mass, and drink the rest of the solution) to enhance the process.

Anyway, sugar water tastes... kind of strange. So, I decided to mix in a few Koolaid packs (the kind that you have to mix with sugar... so, they go well with the dextrose). I can't help but notice that these fruit flavors have several acids in the ingredients - there is citric acid, and a few others such as ascorbic acid (vitamin C).

So... any truth to these ideas? Anyone have experience in these areas? How do you usually make any creatine transport systems that you use?

If it does turn out that the acids in the juice are detrimental to the process, I wouldn't mind tossing out the dextrose/water/koolaid mix and making up a new dextrose/water mix.

[.V.]

Creatine is helped into the body by drinks with sugar (dextrose is best). Acid drinks can mess up the effectiveness of it though. Dextrose koolaid, or creatine with dextrose mixed in is easiest. I don't think the small amount of acids in a koolaid package would quite be the same as mixing it in grapefruit juice.

White grape juice is pretty good too - becuase it has a higher dextrose/fructose balance, where something like apple juice has more fructose than dextrose.

I asked a doc and don't remember the exact reasons he gave (or truly understand them) but he insisted that I not use it with acidic drinks. I thought it wouldn't matter because stomach acid is pretty strong stuff itself. But this guy is not only an MD, but also a true BB beast - with the physique to back up what he says.

[Maxgain]

Originally Posted by Revolver

If it does turn out that the acids in the juice are detrimental to the process, I wouldn't mind tossing out the dextrose/water/koolaid mix and making up a new dextrose/water mix.

I can only imagine what the stomach juices at pH 2 do then. Creatine would be useless orally.

Maxgain

[maverick]

Originally Posted by Maxgain

I can only imagine what the stomach juices at pH 2 do then. Creatine would be useless orally.

Maxgain

Acidic substances WILL turn creatine to creatinine, its useless waste product. Most of us know this fact. The fact that most people don't know is that Maxgain's argument is not a valid one because the half-life of creatine is inversely proportional to the acidity of the substance. In laymen's terms, stomach acid, with a pH of 1-2, would have LESS negative effects on creatine supplementation than would orange juice, a pH of 3. Take this excerpt:

Those who point out that creatine is unstable in acids fail to point out exactly how unstable it is, as this is a relative measure. The degradation half-life of creatine follows an inverted U along the pH scale, with the bottom estimated to be somewhere around a pH of 4. In acids about the strength of orange juice (pH of 3), creatine still has a degradation half-life of over seven days. In substances that are even more acidic (such as stomach acid), the degradation half-life is actually much longer – for example, it is 55 days at a pH of 1.4. This means that creatine can easily make it through the digestive tract with very little degradation.

[rbuchman]

I'd like to see the chemical Rxn that explains an bell shaped reaction rate with varying pH, seems very strange.

However since the half life is 7 days in an acid of pH 3 then who cares about the 2 minutes it sits in your orange juice?

[Maxgain]

Good post Maverick so thus there is no problem at all in mixing it in an acidic enviornment. Do you have reference to the study to show its degradation pattern.

Maxgain