Creatine vs. getting cut

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by PaulCaine5
You cut for two weeks after that, in theory burning fat and little muscle. I am still experimenting with this diet.

Sorry should have been like that.

So the timing is actually part of the ABCDE diet? Interesting. It sounds like it is basically just condensed bulking and cutting cycles?

[ebon00]

Originally posted by NateDogg
I simply cannot buy that increasing muscle size, without increasing the number of contractile proteins, can possibly result in strength gain. Please post more info when you find it.

Well, the reason creatine increases strength is that it provids more energy substrate (i.e. creatine) for anaerobic contractions. The water weight associated with creatine use may or may not help strength but it's creatine's role as an energy substrate that is the primary source of the added strength. So you don't need to increase the number of contractile proteins to increase strength (which might actually be impossible in humans except under certain circumstances when using steroidal nutrients).

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by ebon00
Well, the reason creatine increases strength is that it provids more energy substrate (i.e. creatine) for anaerobic contractions. The water weight associated with creatine use may or may not help strength but it's creatine's role as an energy substrate that is the primary source of the added strength. So you don't need to increase the number of contractile proteins to increase strength (which might actually be impossible in humans except under certain circumstances when using steroidal nutrients).

My only argument is that water retention, in and of itself, does not in any way increase strength.

I think you may be confusing an increase in number of contractile proteins with an increase in the number of muscle fibers. They are not the same thing. I posted this on another board a while back...

From Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning...

Hypertrophy:

...is primarily a result of an increase in the cross-sectional area of the existing fibers. The process of hypertrophy involves both an increase in the synthesis of the contractile proteins actin and myosin (the primary components of two respective types of myofilaments) within the myofibril and an increase in the number of myofibrils within a muscle fiber. The new myofilaments are added to the external layers of the myofibril, resulting in an increase in its diameter...

[PaulCaine5]

Originally posted by NateDogg
So the timing is actually part of the ABCDE diet? Interesting. It sounds like it is basically just condensed bulking and cutting cycles?

The diet is very influenced by time. In fact, a study was performed and it showed that you gain considerably more muscle in (the first two weeks of the bulking stage)than fat. This is ruduced after a period of between 14-20 days. Therefore, in theory it is better to bulk and cut in equal two week periods. Thats the way I see it from the research that Ive done but Im sure someone can explain it better than that.

[PaulCaine5]

What happens when you come off creatine?

[ralex5]

NateDogg, it looks like I may have been wrong. I guess the water retention itself doesn't actually make you stronger, but decreases recovery time, which would allow you to grow faster. Here's an excerpt I pasted from an article at http://www.virtualtrainers.com/html/....creatine.html


"Because Creatine Monohydrate increases water retention the increased water in your cells helps reduce the the amount of lactic acid that is stored in your cells after a workout. (basically diluting the acid) This will reduce soreness and increase muscular recovery. Since water retention is common with Creatine Monohydrate supplementation, many people experience dramatic size, weight and strength gains."

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by ralex5
NateDogg, it looks like I may have been wrong. I guess the water retention itself doesn't actually make you stronger, but decreases recovery time, which would allow you to grow faster. Here's an excerpt I pasted from an article at http://www.virtualtrainers.com/html/....creatine.html


"Because Creatine Monohydrate increases water retention the increased water in your cells helps reduce the the amount of lactic acid that is stored in your cells after a workout. (basically diluting the acid) This will reduce soreness and increase muscular recovery. Since water retention is common with Creatine Monohydrate supplementation, many people experience dramatic size, weight and strength gains."

That sounds more feasible.

[askjoe]

You can take both creatine and Xenadrine - just not at the same time during the day. With one being a duiretic and the other a mass builder, they'll cancel each other out. By taking them at seperate times throughout the day you'll avoid this - at least 2-3 hours a part from each other.

Askjoe
http://www.onelastrep.com

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by PaulCaine5
What happens when you come off creatine?

You will lose some size due to less water retention, and you may notice that you have a little less energy near the end of your sets. You probably would not notice anything for a couple weeks as once saturated, it usually takes about that long for creatine levels in muscle to return to "normal."

[SOBEK1277]

Been off the creatine for 4 days now, still appear to make strength gains, still trying to get more definition. Here are some photos taken today with a webcam - 5'10 @ 195 lbs - should have better ones taken later with a camera.

http://www.geocities.com/sobek1277/i...?1044004934795

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by SOBEK1277
Been off the creatine for 4 days now, still appear to make strength gains, still trying to get more definition. Here are some photos taken today with a webcam - 5'10 @ 195 lbs - should have better ones taken later with a camera.

http://www.geocities.com/sobek1277/i...?1044004934795

If you have only been off for four days, chances are you are not really off yet. That said, I didn't say you can't make strength gains without it. On the contrary, you don't need it at all to make strength or size gains.

[SOBEK1277]

I agree its probably still in my system, I'm trying to mark approximately when I start to lose some strength assuming when I do.