Sponsor Our Community
Go Back   Discuss Fitness > General > Nutritional Supplements

Nutritional Supplements Which supplements work? Which don't? Come and discuss related topics in here.


Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24-Mar-03, 07:49 PM   #1
spankgo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 21

Dhea


Im starting a new supplement that contains 625 mg of tribulus and 12.5 mg of DHEA. I've read the side effects that DHEA has (hairloss, estrogen production). I'm wondering if I take 2 pills a day, then will the small amount of DHEA in my system still produce side effects??
Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
spankgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-Mar-03, 09:49 PM   #2
9inarow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 122
Long post but worth the read. Try 7 keto DHEA ... all the same benefits of DHEA without development of the sex hormones Testosterone and Estrogen. Read:


DHEA: Fad and Folly or Fountain of Youth?
By Dr. John H. Maher

DHEA: FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH OR FAD & FOLLY? (Part 1)

Caveats to Consider with Oral DHEA Enhancements

In spite of the recent surge of interest in HGH oral secretagogues, sale of the original "anti-aging wonders", DHEA and melatonin, still far outstrip those of their newest rival.

Opinions as to the value of DHEA enhancement range from, "everyone past 25 should supplement their diet with DHEA" (1), to "until further work proves its benefits and determines its safety people should not take DHEA." (2)

The purpose of this paper is to review some of the data that suggests a more rational alternative to either of the above two polar extremes.

What is DHEA?

Dehydroepiandrosterone is the most abundant adrenal steroid. The average daily output for men is 31 mg. and 19 mg. for women. Levels peak at puberty and are already declining by maturity. By age 80, levels may be as little as 5 or 10% of peak puberty levels. (3)

DHEA, like all the steroid hormones, is derived from pregnenolone, which is itself derived from the steroid cholesterol.

Compared to other hormones like melatonin and cortisol, there is little circadian variation. DHEA is only about 12% higher in the AM, though this variation becomes even smaller with age. Interestingly, levels tend to be higher in autumn and winter by 13%. (4).

What Are the Functions of DHEA?

DHEA’s primary role is as a precursor for the sex hormones, i.e., testosterone and estrogen.

It also appears to buffer the brain (the hippocampus and hypothalamus) from damage related to high levels of the stress hormone, cortisol. (5) This may be part of the explanation of DHEA’s reported ability to improve memory function in both animals and the elderly. (6) A ratio of 10 to 1 DHEA over cortisol is generally considered desirable to protect the brain against the aging effects of stress.

DHEA may increase serotonin which in turn may be an explanation for its mood altering and anti-depressant effects experienced by some. (7) This may also explain why DHEA has been reported to increase REM sleep. DHEA is low in postpartum depression, anorexia nervosa, and schizophrenia.

DHEA appears to increase insulin sensitivity and lower lipids, which may be related to its reported relation to lower cardiac mortality in men. (8,9) DHEA stimulates the immune system in part by increasing IL-2 and natural killer cell activity and overcoming the immuno-suppressive effects of cortisol (stress) on T-lymphocyte function. DHEA increases lean-body-mass and bone density probably through increasing testosterone and increasing thermogenesis in the liver. ( 7) DHEA increases IGF-1, probably through enhanced HGH receptor activity. Thus it has been called, "the poor man’s hgh".

Thirty days oral administration of 1600mg of DHEA daily in healthy males caused a 31% fat loss w/ no weight loss, suggesting increased muscle mass.

So it is easy to see why Ward Dean, M.D., states, "DHEA may have impressive immuno-regulatory, anti-diabetic, anti-cancer, anti-obesity and anti-stress benefits and be useful in the prevention of atherosclerosis, hypertension, hyper-cholesterolemia, and multiple sclerosis.(8)

The Catch

So given all the benefits, why isn’t everyone in favor of DHEA supplementation?

First of all, although there have been thousands of studies done on DHEA, most have been done on animals. Human studies are much fewer and somewhat conflicting.

As DHEA is converted into the sex hormones, estrogen and testosterone, it is feared that these may cause an increase in the incidence of and the rate of growth of estrogen/testosterone sensitive tumors. Of most concern are breast, cervical, uterine, ovarian and prostate malignancies, and BHP, all believed to be estrogen sensitive and the latter two testosterone related.

There have been expressed concerns of liver damage or liver cancer with very high doses. (9)

Although animal studies have turned up no certain ill effects, there are no long-term studies in humans.Studies in cancer patients have turned up high levels of DHEA in breast and endometrial cancer.

Retrospective studies have found elevated DHEA levels in postmenopausal women not taking estrogen and who had no evidence of breast cancer, were related to significantly higher incidences of breast cancer in the next 10 years. (10 )

There is concern that DHEA supplementation may cause masculinizaton of the female fetus.

The most accepted theory of BHP and prostate cancer is that testosterone, and its metabolite, DHT, worsens or causes these conditions and therefore indirect enhancements of same via DHEA supplementation should be avoided.

Benefit/Risk Analysis

Keep in mind however, most anti-aging programs endeavor to "restore the hormones of youth" and that includes testosterone in men and testosterone and estrogen in women. The question is in each particular case, do the benefits outweigh the risks?

Briefly, testosterone enhancements are thought to restore libido, build lean body mass, combat insulin resistance, Syndrome X, and central obesity, forestall atherosclerosis and heart disease, and increase confidence and the joy of life.

Estrogen is thought to protect the heart, bones, skin, and mind of women and prevent vaginal dryness and thinning, hot flashes and night sweats.

Interestingly, DHEA at the usual anti-aging male dosage of 25-100 mg per day, will raise DHEA levels to that of a youthful man but does not appear to raise testosterone levels in men. Yet half as much readily increases testosterone in women. (11) Pharmaceutical doses of 400 mg daily in elderly men rapidly and significantly raise testosterone and DHT (Dehydroxy-testosterone) (12)

In human and animal prostate cancer cell studies, DHEA inhibits growth. (13,14)

Physicians at the Dept. of Urology, Institute of Experimental Endocrinology at Humboldt University in Berlin, found that DHEA levels in patients with prostate cancer were significantly lower than healthy controls.

A retrospective study at John Hopkins University involved the analysis of frozen DHEA samples from 1974 and the subsequent development of prostate cancer. They found that the 81 men with prostate cancer had had 11-12% lower DHEA.'

Clear Contraindications and Caveats

The fact is there are and will continue to be mostly animal studies. Although more and more human studies are being conducted, the results of long-term studies are by definition, decades away. Still there are perhaps a few clear contraindications and caveats at present.

Those with frank liver disease, liver cancer, jaundice, hepatitis, cirrhosis, and/or elevated liver enzymes should not take DHEA without a physician’s guidance. At the same time, anti-aging doses of DHEA are not associated with hepato-toxicity and should not be a concern for those with healthy livers.

Pregnant women should not take DHEA. There is little reason for women not yet menopausal to take DHEA. DHEA for postpartum depression should be based on salivary/ blood testing demonstrating sub-optimal levels or less that optimal 10 to 1 DHEA/cortisol ratio. Long term therapeutic doses, 100- 200 mg/day DHEA, for women with diabetes or autoimmune disorders should be under a doctor’s supervision.

Women convert DHEA into estrogen and testosterone much more readily than men. Indeed, the transformation is so efficient that DHEA supplementation has been proposed as an estrogen replacement therapy for menopausal and post-menopausal women! Conversely, this same ready conversion to estrogen is also cause for concern. Therefore, women concerned with estrogen levels and breast cancer need to weigh the risks and benefits much more carefully than men.
9inarow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-Mar-03, 09:51 PM   #3
9inarow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 122

continued


7- Keto DHEA TM, a Viable Alternative

Fortunately, there is a metabolite of DHEA called 7-Keto DHEA TM. 7-Keto-DHEA TM actually has been reported to garner better results than DHEA in improving energy, memory, increasing the metabolic rate through increasing thermogenesis, reducing stress effects, preventing muscle loss and stimulating the immune system. 7-Keto DHEA TM does NOT convert into estrogen or testosterone.

7-Keto DHEA TM is hypothesized to work by competing with the receptors that normally function with the stress hormones. Cortisol tends to become elevated with age and stress. High gluco-corticoids not only age the brain, they impair immune cell activity. By restoring the proper ratio of DHEA, which drops with aging, to cortisol, which rises with aging, these benefits accrue.

In a double blind, placebo controlled human study featured in the Oct. 99 issue of the Journal of Exercise Physiology determined that 200 mg of 7-Keto DHEA TM daily, combined w/ natural nutrients to support thyroid function (T-3), produced a 1 pound decrease in body fat per week over an 8 week period. Placebo participants lost less than a quarter pound of fat per week. Cholesterol, blood pressure and glucose studies revealed no significant changes. However 7-Keto DHEA TM is significantly more expensive that DHEA.

Considering the reported weight loss with 7-Keto DHEA TM, we know it can not be related to the action of testosterone, which tends to increase lean body mass, but rather through thermogenesis. Indeed a paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences showed in animal studies that 7-Keto DHEA TM burns fat through activation of thermogenic enzymes better that DHEA! (15)

As with DHEA, many of the benefits of 7-Keto DHEA TM are based on animal studies. However human studies from the University of Wisconsin, Madison, showed 7-Keto DHEA TM improved memory better that DHEA. Similar studies showed 7-Keto DHEA TM increases T-cell activity.

Interestingly, DHEA is converted into 7-Keto DHEA TM by human skin, leading to its possible role in slowing skin aging and wrinkling.

In summary, 7-Keto DHEA TM may work better than DHEA for obesity, cardiac protection, insulin sensitivity, skin aging, memory loss and the immune system. And this without the potential risks of increasing estrogen and testosterone!

Dosages and Cycling

A recent double blind, randomized study by Casson, et al., on 13 normal and overweight non-smoking and menopausal women endeavored to determine the effect of a six month 25 mg. Per day dose of oral DHEA therapy on DHEA, testosterone, blood fats, and IGF-1. At 3 months there was a positive change in DHEA and testosterone, returning to peri-menopausal levels along with a favorable rise in IGF-1. But at 6 months, hormone levels returned to baseline and HDL levels had dropped! This significant attenuation of bio-availability reflects the upregulation of DHEA metabolism in response to supplementation. Such upregulation suggests a supplementation strategy of cycling. (16)

Cycling hormone enhancements simply means scheduling a rest or break between periods or "cycles" of supplementation. Given the good results in the 7-Keto DHEA TM weight loss study, and the above study by Casson, et al., a break for a month after every two months seems a plausible strategy. Alternate strategies might include 5 days on, 2 days off, or supplementing every other day. Frankly, no one appears to know for sure what cycling strategies are best.

Generally middle aged and older men are advised to take 25 – 50 mg. per day, increasing the dosage with increasing age, stress levels and possibly with larger size. A commonly suggested dosage for women is 10 – 25 mg. per day. Though there is little circadian variation, DHEA is generally higher in the early AM and suggests dosing at bedtime or upon rising.
9inarow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-Mar-03, 10:35 PM   #4
spankgo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 21
thanks for your information, I may try 7 Keto in the future, but my question still goes unanswered....

Will a 30 yr old guy taking 25 mg of DHEA daily, for 4 weeks build up amounts of DHEA that will produce side effects? or is this amount too small to yield any significant side effects?
spankgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
blood pressure, blood test, body fat, body mass, bone density, breast cancer, burns fat, estrogen levels, fat loss, heart disease, high level, high levels, hormone levels, insulin resistance, keto dhea, lean body, lean body mass, muscle loss, muscle mass, prostate cancer, weight loss



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
Sponsor Our Community

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43 PM.


vBulletin ©2004 Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2004 DiscussFitness.com