Fat Burners and cutting cycles

[GymRat18]

Can fat burners such as hydroxy cut or xendrine both being ephedra free can be harmfull if used multiple times for cutting cycles? Is there any scientific evidence of them being harmful at all or harmfull if used multiple times say twice a year, or many times throughout time. Ive used them twice in the past year (1 bottle each time like 6 months apart) and about 6 months later im considering it again to help finish off the fat in time for summer. Thanks for repsonses = P

[GymRat18]

Really looking for a response from this.... how bout a site mod I'd appreciate it = P

[WCUfballer]

man i think that all these crappy cutting agents that they have out now are for the birds. As far as how healthy they are to take in the amounts you gave....I couldn't give you a fact, but what I do know is that Hydroxy Cut made me feel like total sh*t every day I took it. They are finding out that these things like Hydroxy Cut and creatine are leaving tumors on peoples livers, kidneys ect...If you want my opinion I would tell you to go ahead and get some of the real stuff and shread yourself up alot....I mean really, d-ball has been around for more than 40 years and we know as long as you don't abuse the **** out of it that you can get by with a little hair loss and your sack will shrink for the period of time you are cycling....creatine has been around for maybe 15 years at the most and is already offing people from tumors in record numbers....I would skip the crap and go with the juice man......get you some Winstrol or some test enanthate and still spend less money in the long run....that is if you are old enough to take the stuff which in my opinion is over the age of 20 and for sure not under the age of 18!!

Good Luck!!!!

[Jackal]

Ephedra free = worthless IMO. Your better off getting your diet down to a tee. But no, they are not dangerous.

[dsade]

Originally Posted by WCUfballer

They are finding out that these things like Hydroxy Cut and creatine are leaving tumors on peoples livers, kidneys ect...If you want my opinion I would tell you to go ahead and get some of the real stuff and shread yourself up alot....I mean really, d-ball has been around for more than 40 years and we know as long as you don't abuse the **** out of it that you can get by with a little hair loss and your sack will shrink for the period of time you are cycling....creatine has been around for maybe 15 years at the most and is already offing people from tumors in record numbers....I would skip the crap and go with the juice man......get you some Winstrol or some test enanthate and still spend less money in the long run....that is if you are old enough to take the stuff which in my opinion is over the age of 20 and for sure not under the age of 18!!

Good Luck!!!!

WTF are you talking about? Does the echo from your ass make it hard for people to understand you?

This is close to the most ignorant, irresponsible response I have personally ever read on ANY board.

Please do post stats on these "Record numbers" of people dropping dead from Creatine, as well as reputable studies with reference to Hydroxycut et al, and creatine causing liver and kidney tumors.

[adrenaline]

Originally Posted by dsade

WTF are you talking about? Does the echo from your ass make it hard for people to understand you?

that is funny as h**l man.

[WCUfballer]

to the all knowing fellow with the smart reply....for your information...I have a close friend who passed from a tumor the size of a softball on his liver which was determined to be from the use of cycling creatine and other "legal" cutting agents!!! On the other side of the spectrum, I have friends at the gym who are as old as 54 years old that have used for 30 years and better. Arnold admitted to taking D-Ball like it was his job...and now he is running the state of California! I am I saying that steroids are perfectly safe....no....i am a firm believer in moderation...in this case cycling once a year for a couple of years and stopping....I was one of those guys who had hit a plateau and had no other choice if i wanted to preogress any farther....I did choose to juice and now I'm not and haven't touched the stuff in over three years! Have you ever used steroids yourself??? I guess not judging from your reply above, but if not, then how dare you talk like you know "WTF" you are talking about. Don't knock it till you have tried it.

To the guy with the question....the only thing that I would really warn you about is taking the stuff too much...not saying that you will opt to take my route, but if so you should study it and learn about it....find a friend who has done it or knows about it and let them guide you through a safe cycle. Lastly I will say that AS are not safe for anyone who still has a chance to grow on their own...a young person under the age of 20 years, cause steroids can harm your growth at a young age....ie height!!! Whatever route you choose to take....Good Luck Man!!!

[GymRat18]

Thanks guys yeah I know quite a lot about everything, my mom was chatting with me the other day and said she heard some crap on the news about fat burners causing kidney or something problems. Maybe liver I don't really remember, I was wondering if anyone had heard anything about it. Maybe it was about ephedrine I dunno, as far as steroids I have to agree they are safe if your old enough with correct use and no abuse, however I don't think I'll use em I am still gaining mass, no plateaus in a while (knock on wood). Anyways thanks for the replies my mom spooks me sometime LOL but anyway just kinda scared me I don't use fatburners much anyway just during cutting time.... and again thanks guys

[GymRat18]

oh yea in deeper in my question my thought was when my mom said something like that is that the natural herbs combined in the fat burner to work like ephedrine might be dangerous, I dunno, but now thinking about I guess a little green tea extract and caffeine never hurt no one right? = P Oh yea and for the guy who said they don't work, I would disagree I got pretty cut up on Xendrine it helped me get a sweet six pack last summer, and cut no telling how much body fat so ... who knows( in combination with clean diet and exercise + lifting).... o well thanks again = P

[WCUfballer]

good for you man.....keep working hard and you'll get were ya wanna be....if you are going with the herbal route then you should also consider taking vitamins and such everyday to keep up your immune system and will also aid in helping those different herbs work like you want them too. If you absolutely must use a legal chemical to cut and if you can still find it, I would recomend ultimate orange....a drink i used a couple years back that ripped me to shreds in a couple of months....the stuff really gives you a good rip during your workout and cuts off the fat rapidly...but be careful and don't take a huge dose cause it can be hard on the heart....don't be alarmed if your heart rate rises a little during training....i do know that the NCAA banned the stuff from being used by their athletes if you are affiliated with any of their sports....good luck once again bro!!

[dsade]

Originally Posted by WCUfballer

to the all knowing fellow with the smart reply....for your information...I have a close friend who passed from a tumor the size of a softball on his liver which was determined to be from the use of cycling creatine and other "legal" cutting agents!!! On the other side of the spectrum, I have friends at the gym who are as old as 54 years old that have used for 30 years and better. Arnold admitted to taking D-Ball like it was his job...and now he is running the state of California! I am I saying that steroids are perfectly safe....no....i am a firm believer in moderation...in this case cycling once a year for a couple of years and stopping....I was one of those guys who had hit a plateau and had no other choice if i wanted to preogress any farther....I did choose to juice and now I'm not and haven't touched the stuff in over three years! Have you ever used steroids yourself??? I guess not judging from your reply above, but if not, then how dare you talk like you know "WTF" you are talking about. Don't knock it till you have tried it.

To the guy with the question....the only thing that I would really warn you about is taking the stuff too much...not saying that you will opt to take my route, but if so you should study it and learn about it....find a friend who has done it or knows about it and let them guide you through a safe cycle. Lastly I will say that AS are not safe for anyone who still has a chance to grow on their own...a young person under the age of 20 years, cause steroids can harm your growth at a young age....ie height!!! Whatever route you choose to take....Good Luck Man!!!

So your "proof" that creatine causing cancer in "Record numbers" is one guy that died from cancer and that some nameless entity is withholding frickin FRONT PAGE NEWS Rock-solid causal information about one of the most popular, safest, most effective supplements in history?...then you go on to babble about D-ball (sic) as if they have anything in common?

How did they "determine" that creatine sad the cause of said tumor, by the way? Who is "they" anyway? Where are these "record number" of people?

Lastly, who the hell even brought up steroids before you in this thread? You are answering questions about steroid use that the thread was not even asking.

If you are going to open your mouth, via a keyboard, and condemn some things that the brightest minds in the industry are not even close to forming conclusions about - you had better have something to back it up besides "well, I knew some guy".

[dsade]

To the thread starter, mods, and DF community - I certainly don't want to create a hostile environment. With the recent ban on Ephedrine, and now there were noises released today in the news about how "Green Tea and Synephrine cause Ephedrine-like side effects" - the moves to further ban our supplements are already in the workings. The last thing we need is some misinformed bigmouth spouting on and on about how Creatine causes tumors and kills people.

To address the thread topic - no, they are not as effective as EC alone, but they are good support ingredients that do provide some fat burning ability. There are other products in the workings to manipulate both the adrenergic system (comparable to ECY), as well as other systems (PPAR, etc.) to help generalized fat burning.

[WCUfballer]

I thought that this site was for the use of adults, or young people who could act like adults. To start with, in my opinion there was never a hostile environment. We are on computers for God sakes, but some like the drama scene I guess. So I hope that noone chains me down to beat me for having an opinion on this rediculously over heated topic. After all, I wasn't the one that made the first rude comment about "the echo in my ass." I thought that I would inform the starter of the thread on what had happend not to just "some guy", but one of my long time friends. I feel that with no longer than creatine has been on the market, some steroids used properly can be as safe if not safer than some of these products that we find at GNC. At least we know long term side affects of AS. The new stuff is simply taking a shot in the dark if you ask me. I am not responding to a thread to pressure anyone to take AS. I am simply stating my opinion in regards to the topic at hand, which is what makes this site so great. Everyone has their own opinion, and if there were one answer for every question then we wouldn't need this site would we??? We are here to help and inform each other on what knowledge of the sport that we have, and not to argue over a keyboard. Even "gymrat" himself said that his mother had told him something about seeing that fat burners caused problems!!! Anyone else can write what they want, but I am done with this thread. For the last time....Good Luck Gymrat18!!!

[mattjf]

Alright, I need to comment becasue I agree with dsade here.

First of all, in no reputable scientific research anywhere has it been shown that creatine causes cancer. I am assuming "they" that told your friend he had cancer from creatine was citing the AFSSA report? This report has been dispelled countless times. I suggest you do some reading before making these claims. You go on to talk about some steroids that would be great for him to take. Why don't you ask "they" (I assume it's your doctor) and see what he thinks about your steroid use vs creatine use.

The reason why dsade was so upset is because we have uninformed people making comments and it turns into things getting banned. All we need is for someone to start making claims a supplement causes cancer, next thing we know, that supplement is banned.

Do you really think his mom or the local news is the best source for information on supplements. Do you really think the local news anchor is going to know what d-boll is?

-Matt

[GymRat18]

You know how mothers are probably heard one thing and said another, but "Diet pills" have bad reputations especially with people abusing them w/ Ephedra, and now everyone thinks diet pills have killer amounts of ephedra in them and Ephedra free kinds have yet to be invented, I have heard they are safer but I was making sure their wasn't any breaking news on them, anyways now to the guy talking about AS, he has a valid point though you can't discredit him for saying that creatine is any safer than D-bol or AS bc long term test have not been done on creatine plus we don't know if it is safer for use 30 to 40 years down the road.... so neither of you can prove if it is safe or not safe in the long run, but he is right bc you are taking your chances either way even though chances are high nothing at all will happen. Oh well can't we all just get along lol =P