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Old 05-Sep-04, 08:02 AM   #1
daspaceman
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first cycle, what do you think?


what do you think of this cycle?
I`ve been training for 8 years naturally, i`m 6 foot 7 , 226lbs @ 11% bfat (when bulked over 260lbs)

weeks 1-12 : Eq @300/week
weeks 4-13 : sustanon 250 on sun and wed , total 500/week
weeks 4-19.5 : nolvadex @ 10/20 (not sure, want water bloat minimal)
weeks 16.5-19.5 : day 1 clomid 200, days 2-11 100mg/day
days12-21 50mg/day

is hcg needed or is clomid enough?

thanks
bros
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Old 05-Sep-04, 10:06 AM   #2
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... sory wrong forum
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Old 05-Sep-04, 10:37 AM   #3
pmcgough
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what are you doing from 13-16.5, why not just start pct during week 13
don't know much about Eq, but 400 should give better results...someone correct me if im wrong
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Old 05-Sep-04, 12:28 PM   #4
Lee J B
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My first and only question is ......

First cycle right ? Whats with all the gear ?

EQ isn't a first timers best choice by a long shot, depending on your age you'd get better results running test for a straight 8 - 10 weeks than you'd ever get running that cycle.

What are your cycle goes ?
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Old 05-Sep-04, 01:05 PM   #5
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pmcgough..... from 13-16.5 , i`m waiting for both drugs to clear from my system with a half life of about 18 days, then start pct

Lee jb , im 28 years ; i`m trying ti add another 15-20 with minimal water bloat, Eq will aid in that department and sustanon although it gives some water bload it doesn`t like running a single test, what do you think? the other option is running primobolan @200/week instead of Eq,
what do you guys think?

thanks
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Old 05-Sep-04, 02:29 PM   #6
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primo@200 is good, as primo gives real low water retention

as for letting it clear, you might as well start pct while you let it out of your system, just for no worries
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Old 05-Sep-04, 04:06 PM   #7
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Well running primo @ 200/ week won't do much at all. If your going to run primo you need to run it 200 twice a week ..... 400/week, but you won't be gaining a substantial amount of muscle running primo.

EQ is extremely harsh on your body, and you just seriously don't need to run it at all, especially if water retention is all your worried about. You can run sust on it's own at 500mg/wk like you said and that will work wonders first cycle. Test Enth won't bloat you up massively - and just get some water retention herbal tabs from a health shop, they'll stop it even more. For the size you want and what you want to avoid, I would just run the sust on it's own, or similarly test enth on it's own.
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Old 05-Sep-04, 04:48 PM   #8
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thanks for the advice lee
I think i`ll run sustanon on it`s own for 8-10 weeks and do proper pct since it`s my first cycle, Lee I thought EQ (bolderone) keeps water retention very low infact it`s used precontest! and is only moderelty androgenic while sustanon if highly androgenic.
thanks for the info
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Old 05-Sep-04, 04:54 PM   #9
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This is what I found about EnthTestosterone enanthate


Quick overview:


Active Life: 15-16 days
Drug Class: Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (for injection)
Average Dose: Men 250-1000 mg/week
Acne: Yes
Water Retention: Yes, high
High Blood Pressure: Yes
Liver Toxic: Low, except in mega dosages
Aromatization:Yes, high
DHT Conversion: Yes, high
Decrease HPTA function: Yes, severe

Testosterone enanthate is an oil based injectable steroid, designed to slowly release testosterone from the injection site (depot). Once administered, serum concentrations of this hormone will rise for several days, and remain markedly elevated for approximately two weeks. It may actually take three weeks for the action of this drug to fully diminish. For medical purposes this is the most widely prescribed testosterone, used regularly to treat cases of hypogonadism and other disorders related to androgen deficiency. Since patients generally do not selfadminister such injections, a long acting steroid like this is a very welcome item. Therapy is clearly more comfortable in comparison to an ester like propionate, which requires a much more frequent dosage schedule.

Testosterone is a powerful hormone with notably prominent side effects. Much of which stem from the fact that testosterone exhibits a high tendency to convert into estrogen. Related side effects may therefore become a problem during a cycle. For starters, water retention can become quite noticeable. This can produce a clear loss of muscle definition, as subcutaneous fluids begin to build. The storage of excess body fat may further reduce the visibility of muscle features, another common problem with aromatizing steroids. The excess estrogen level during/after your cycle also has the potential to lead up to gynecomastia. Adding an ancillary drug like Nolvadex and/or Proviron is therefore advisable to those with a known sensitivity to this side effect. The anti-aromatase Arimidex, Femara, or Aromasin are a much better choices though. It is believed that the use of an anti-estrogen can slightly lower the anabolic effect of most androgen cycles (estrogen and water weight are often thought to facilitate strength and muscle gain), so one might want to see if such drugs are actually necessary before committing to use. A little puffiness under the nipple is a sign that gynecomastia is developing. If this is left to further develop into pronounced swelling, soreness and the growth of small lumps under the nipples, some form of action should be taken immediately to treat it (obviously quitting the drug or adding ancillaries like Nolvadex).

Equipose
======Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate)

Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate)


Quick overview:


Active Life: 14-16 days
Drug Class: Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (for injection)
Average Dose: Men 400-600 mg/week......Women 50-150 mg/week
Acne: Rare
Water Retention: Low
High Blood Pressure: Rare
Liver Toxic: No
Aromatization: Some, about 50% less than testosterone
DHT Conversion: Low
Decrease HPTA function: Moderate


Equipoise® is the popular brand name for the veterinary injectable steroid boldenone undecylenate. It is a derivative of testosterone, which exhibits strong anabolic and moderately androgenic properties. The undecylenate ester greatly extends the activity of the drug (the undecylenate ester is only one carbon atom longer than decanoate), so that clinically injections would need to be repeated every three or four weeks. In the veterinary feild Equipoise is most commonly used on horses, exhibiting a pronounced effect on lean bodyweight, appetite and general disposition of the animal. As with all steroids, this compound shows a marked ability for increasing red blood cell production. In recent years this compound has become a favorite among athletes. Many consider it an ideal replacement to Deca-Durabolin.

The side effects of Equipoise are generally mild. The structure of boldenone does allow it to convert into estrogen, but it does not have an extremely high affinity to do so. If we look at aromatization studies, they suggest that its rate of estrogen conversion should be about half that of testosterone's. Water retention with this drug would therefore be slightly higher than that with Deca-Durabolin (with an estimated 20% conversion), but much less than we would find with a stronger compound as Testosterone. While there is still a chance of encountering an estrogen related side effect as such when using Equipoise, problems are usually not encountered at a moderate dosage level. Gynecomastia might become a problem, but usually only with very sensitive individuals or (again) with those using higher dosages. If estrogenic effects become a problem, the addition of Nolvadex should of course make the cycle more tolerable. An anti-aromatase such as Arimidex, Femara, or Amonasin would be a stronger option, however probably not necessary with such a mild drug.



SustanonActive Life: Approx. 21 days
Drug Class: Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (for injection)
Average Dose: 250-1000 mg/week (males only)
Acne: Yes
Water Retention: Yes
High Blood Pressure: Yes
Liver Toxic: Low
Aromatization: Yes
DHT Conversion: Yes, high
Decrease HPTA function: Yes, severe

Sustanon 250® is an oil-based injectable testosterone blend, developed by Organon. It typically contains four different testosterone esters: Testosterone propionate (30 mg); testosterone phenylpropionate (60 mg); testosterone isocaproate (60mg); and testosterone decanoate (100 mg), although a lower dosed version is also produced. An intelligently "engineered" testosterone, Sustanon is designed to provide a fast yet extended release of testosterone. The propionate and phenylpropionate esters in this product are quickly utilized, releasing into circulation within the first four days. The remaining esters are much slower to release, staying active in the body for about two and three weeks (respectively).

As with all testosterone products, Sustanon is a strong anabolic with pronounced androgenic activity. It is mainly used as a bulking drug, providing good gains in strength and muscle mass. Although it does convert to estrogen, as is the nature of testosterone, this injectable is noted as being slightly more tolerable than cypionate or enanthate. Such observations are only issues of timing however. With Sustanon, blood levels of testosterone are building more slowly, so side effects do not set in as fast. For equal blood hormone levels however, testosterone will break down equally without regard to ester. Also correlating with estrogen, water retention would be noticeable with Sustanon, unless steps were taken to minimize estrogen.
Many individuals like to use a combination of Nolvadex & Proviron, while others use an anti-aromatase like Arimidex, Femara, or Aromasin, to help control estrogen related side effects.


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Old 05-Sep-04, 08:30 PM   #10
pmcgough
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just go with primobolan
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