How and when to take Supps

[Todd]

Originally Posted by IONOR

No they still state that your PWO shake should be straight after your workout (and it is as important as everyone thinks) the only thing that would be diffrent in this case is you "spoon" your Creatine rather than mixing it in with your PWO shake.

Ok, I am still a little confused, I just want to get a clear picture of what exactly is going on with all this. Ok, so first of all..... from these studies that you have read, do they say one should still take a PWO shake before or after your "spooned" creatine? Do they say you should still take in a simple carb drink or no? And if so, do you consume the simple carb drink before or after your "spooned" creatine? Could you clear this all up for me, so I can get a better picture of what their conclusions are for the best way to consume creatine, etc.? Thanks!

And just for the record, I personally consume my simple carb drink (with creatine mixed in it) first, then I chase it with my PWO shake (whey protein).

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Todd

If you are using water or something to flush it down with, then what is the difference between doing that and mixing it in any other liquid and drinking it down right away.

Originally Posted by IONOR

The diffrence is that it has been pre mixed and this would mean the Creatine would be digested differently (apparently according to the studies I have posted). if Creatine is already unstable (some of it already degrades into a byproduct when it's getting digested) however more of this creatine will not get broken down becuase you are not mixing (by the time you mix it and drink the whole shake it could be 5 minutes or more meaning that the Creatine is even more unstable).

So, basically, from those studies they are saying that when creatine is flushed down with water instead of mixed with water or anything else and then swallowed within a few minutes that those few mintues compared to 30 seconds or so, makes a world of difference in how and how much creatine gets absorbed and digested? Hmmmm. :confused:

[IONOR]

Originally Posted by Todd

Ok, I am still a little confused, I just want to get a clear picture of what exactly is going on with all this. Ok, so first of all..... from these studies that you have read, do they say one should still take a PWO shake before or after your "spooned" creatine?No the athlete should first mix there PWO shake (50/50 mix of Dextrose and Maltodextrin mixed with Whey and water) this is the optimal PWO shake and when you have mixed it "spoon" 1tsp of Creatine and chase it with your PWO shake. Do they say you should still take in a simple carb drink or no? And if so, do you consume the simple carb drink before or after your "spooned" creatine?The Creatine should be taken with your PWO shake (I never spike insulin by taking a high carb drink to premote the uptake of Creatine this would cuase you to become less sensitive to your PWO shake also it will cuase you to store more fat if you cuase an overproduction of insulin due to the rapid drop in blood suger) an insulin spike is not needed as much as most peole think for the uptake of Creatine. Could you clear this all up for me, so I can get a better picture of what their conclusions are for the best way to consume creatine, etc.? Thanks!

And just for the record, I personally consume my simple carb drink (with creatine mixed in it) first, then I chase it with my PWO shake (whey protein).Whats the point in doing it this way? Your PWO shake should contain the desired insulin spike for maximum uptake of Creatine at this time

Hope this helped :

[IONOR]

Originally Posted by Todd

So, basically, from those studies they are saying that when creatine is flushed down with water instead of mixed with water or anything else and then swallowed within a few minutes that those few mintues compared to 30 seconds or so, makes a world of difference in how and how much creatine gets absorbed and digested? Hmmmm. :confused:

Well that's what the studies say. I far from know enough about the digestive system and how Creatine is absorbed diffrently in both cases to say yes this is becuase of this that or the next thing but I could post other refrences and studies that say the same thing (I have read many)

[Todd]

Originally Posted by IONOR

I never spike insulin by taking a high carb drink to premote the uptake of Creatine this would cuase you to become less sensitive to your PWO shake also it will cuase you to store more fat if you cuase an overproduction of insulin due to the rapid drop in blood suger).

Originally Posted by IONOR

No the athlete should first mix their PWO shake (50/50 mix of Dextrose and Maltodextrin mixed with Whey and water) this is the optimal PWO shake.

If you add in dextrose/maltodextrin or any other simple sugar, you ARE spiking your insulin with a high carb drink. Dextrose and/or maltodexterin in your PWO drink = simple sugars = high carbs, just so you know.

Also, you even out blood sugar levels by preventing a sudden drop in blood sugar levels from your simple carb intake, by eating a solid complex carb meal along with a solid protein source within 30 minutes of your PWO shake/simple carb intake. This begins to even out blood sugar levels and prevents any sudden drop that may of happened if you were to not consume this type of meal shortly after your first PWO meal.

an insulin spike is not needed as much as most peole think for the uptake of Creatine.

I beg to differ. For optimal creatine and carb replenishment, simple carbs need to be consumed post-workout, thus creating an insulin spike.

Originally Posted by Todd

And just for the record, I personally consume my simple carb drink (with creatine mixed in it) first, then I chase it with my PWO shake (whey protein).

Originally Posted by IONOR

Whats the point in doing it this way? Your PWO shake should contain the desired insulin spike for maximum uptake of Creatine at this time

My mircronized creatine is pre-mixed in a creatine powder mix that contains dextrose, etc already, so I consume that, along with a whey protein shake. If you think about it, we are talking apples vs apples here...same sh!t going down the pipes, but mixed with different things and consumed in a different order....overall thought, it all ends up in the same place at roughly the same time, and spawns the same effects.

[bad2woo]

What about.... Creatine gelatins!?!?

couldn't you just take 5g and then it would be digested in the stomach, correct? so you wouldn't have to worry about mixing it with water or grape juice.

I heard somewhere that you need to mix it with water though so that its absorbed on the way down but form all this contraversy it seems logical that a pill of creatine would be easier?????

[IONOR]

Originally Posted by Todd

If you add in dextrose/maltodextrin or any other simple sugar, you ARE spiking your insulin with a high carb drink. Dextrose and/or maltodexterin in your PWO drink = simple sugars = high carbs, just so you know.

Yeah I meant any other time except PWO. I understand the importance of this and choose not to spike insulin AT ANY OTHER TIME EXCEPT PWO

[/quote]Also, you even out blood sugar levels by preventing a sudden drop in blood sugar levels from your simple carb intake, by eating a solid complex carb meal along with a solid protein source within 30 minutes of your PWO shake/simple carb intake. This begins to even out blood sugar levels and prevents any sudden drop that may of happened if you were to not consume this type of meal shortly after your first PWO meal.[/quote]
Yes I was talking about any other time except PWO (Like I stated above) .I however think it's more optimal to wait 1 hour after your PWO shake to consume any whole foods to make sure your shake is fully digested.





[/quote]I beg to differ. For optimal creatine and carb replenishment, simple carbs need to be consumed post-workout, thus creating an insulin spike.[/quote]
Yes PWO carbs are vital (well almost anyway) but I don't think carbs are neded as much as people think every time you take Creatine.





[/quote] My mircronized creatine is pre-mixed in a creatine powder mix that contains dextrose, etc already, so I consume that, along with a whey protein shake. If you think about it, we are talking apples vs apples here...same sh!t going down the pipes, but mixed with different things and consumed in a different order....overall thought, it all ends up in the same place at roughly the same time, and spawns the same effects. [/quote]
Yes but it is vital we have the correct ratio of carbs vs Protien in this shake getting consumed at the same time. We need to restrict the rate of this PWO shake over 1 hour to make sure we don't provide AN OVERPRODUCTION of insulin which would cuase us to store fat (due to a rapid drop in blood suger) and a lot of your shake goes to waste due to this (doesn't have the same anabolic effect) As well as leaving you catabollic again. For more on this and the correct ratio of carbs vs protien click here
WWW.ABCBodybuilding.com/windowofopportunity.php
(It talks about why we have to restrict the rate about 3/4 the way down as well as the correct ratio and why at the end)

[IONOR]

Originally Posted by bad2woo

What about.... Creatine gelatins!?!?

couldn't you just take 5g and then it would be digested in the stomach, correct? so you wouldn't have to worry about mixing it with water or grape juice.

I heard somewhere that you need to mix it with water though so that its absorbed on the way down but form all this contraversy it seems logical that a pill of creatine would be easier?????

The thing about Creatine pills (capsules gelatins or whatever) is the dosage is a lot harder to control. They will also work out dearer to get your dosage (esspecially if you choose to load)
Also some capsules can actually pass through the digestive system without being broken down correctly due to the nature of the capsule shell.
Also were not talking about whether it's best to mix with water or grape juice .Rather what's more benefical "spooning" creatine or mixing it into a chosen drink. Science is leaning towards "spooning" for some reasons that you wouldn't even consider thinking about (see my scientific refrences)

[Todd]

Originally Posted by IONOR

Yeah I meant any other time except PWO. I understand the importance of this and choose not to spike insulin AT ANY OTHER TIME EXCEPT PWO

Oh, well yah...that is a given.

Yes PWO carbs are vital (well almost anyway) but I don't think carbs are neded as much as people think every time you take Creatine.

I don't think they are NEEDED, but I would say that they do aid in the uptake of creatine, depending on WHEN you are taking it.

Yes but it is vital we have the correct ratio of carbs vs Protien in this shake getting consumed at the same time. We need to restrict the rate of this PWO shake over 1 hour to make sure we don't provide AN OVERPRODUCTION of insulin which would cuase us to store fat (due to a rapid drop in blood suger) and a lot of your shake goes to waste due to this (doesn't have the same anabolic effect) As well as leaving you catabollic again. For more on this and the correct ratio of carbs vs protien click here
WWW.ABCBodybuilding.com/windowofopportunity.php
(It talks about why we have to restrict the rate about 3/4 the way down as well as the correct ratio and why at the end)

I believe this has to do more with individual factors.... how hard you worked out on your previous training session, your overall training intensity day-in and day-out, your individual bodyweight, etc. for determining one's exact protein to carbs ratio for your PWO shake.

We need to restrict the rate of this PWO shake over 1 hour to make sure we don't provide AN OVERPRODUCTION of insulin which would cuase us to store fat (due to a rapid drop in blood suger) and a lot of your shake goes to waste due to this (doesn't have the same anabolic effect) As well as leaving you catabollic again.

Any post workout shake will cause a drop in blood sugar level and leave you catabolic again, if you don't follow it up with the correct macronutrients within the hours after your PWO shake. So it's only obvious that you need to eat the right nutrients after this meal within the hours following.

For more on this and the correct ratio of carbs vs protien click here
WWW.ABCBodybuilding.com/windowofopportunity.php

Good link, but I have been fully aware of all this for a long time!

[UnTouched]

Im about to use Cell/Nitro tech as a stack and I ned to know the best way and times to take the supplements. Please respond with a good answer.