Insulin Spike

[Lee J B]

Lady C - Spot on, that 'crash' was the actually the spark that made me look into this more, sounds like you've found the right medium, and most certainly too much insulin release and your in trouble (primarily in the way of good old glycogen and then fat storage in the good old adipose tissue under the skin that we all love.)

Cursor - Thanks buddy, I agree with every point (and very good points they are too) in your post.

IONOR - A few things, let's run through them if I may. Carbohydrates can only replenish glycogen if enough oxygen is present in your blood - immediatly post-workout (upto around 6minutes) there's nowhere near enough oxygen for your body to donate any to glycolysis (conversion of glucose --> glycogen) ... in terms of priority, this is on the low side of things, metabolic reactions in your liver come first.

Once there is enough, as you say - glycogen will be replenished although not to anywhere near 100% in the first 4 hours. Glucose will still remain in the blood stream because of the simple fact that not all of the molecules bind to the hormone receptors on insulin molecules.... this will 'energise' you - but not for very long (PWO crash) because now your pancreas has released glucagon for glycogenolysis (glycogen --> glucose) because it believes all the mopping up has been done by the insulin and now negative feedback (a bodily security system) occurs. Your blood volume gets even more negative as more glucose is released into it - causing a rebound effect (common in diabetics). We're not talking years for damage to happen, insulin is a funny little thing, treat it with respect or it'll hit you back - hard.

Carbohydrates of any kind actually hinder amino acid breakdown along with fat molecules, but unless your taking large quantities, or taking all three together at the wrong time, don't worry about this. The main source of fuel - correct, but not the only source - balance is essential. 2:1 ratio's do not always work well for everyone, it's best to experiment and like cursor said - really take note of anything you feel.

[MostMuscle]

I don't believe that people who constantly train and take advantage of insulin spiking will develop insulin resistance as training overtime improves (lowers) insulin resistance which is why exercise is key to diabetics.

Lee B J.......I know you are in school now, but take it EASY on the endo & physio dude!! While textbooks and profs do enlighten, real world experience has great value too!! (BTW How are classes going?)

[sooner_ed]

Originally Posted by MostMuscle

I don't believe that people who constantly train and take advantage of insulin spiking will develop insulin resistance as training overtime improves (lowers) insulin resistance which is why exercise is key to diabetics.

Very true statement MostMuscle. As a Type II Diabetic, I have learned many things about insulin over the last 11 months. The main problem I see is when people make blanket statements concerning insulin and how it can contribute to diabetes. First of all, everyone's body is different, therefore, everyone responds differently. Insulin spiking in and of itself will not cause diabetes. Diabetes is caused through an abuse of eating too much sugar and not exercising. Now I know that sounds absolutely too simple but it is true. I can look back on my life over the last 15 years and see how I have eaten. I have pretty much eaten anything I wanted whenever I wanted and never exercised. As a result, I was putting TOO MUCH sugar into my body. That, combined with no exercise, can and most likely will, have disastrious results. However, I would say that everyone here either eats properly or has a desire to do so. I seriously doubt anyone here abuses sugar the way I have in my life. The key to having a bad food day or a bad meal is exercise, which I believe everyone here does. Although it is not recommended for me to have excess carbs and sugars in a meal, everyone is human and we may slip up from time to time. As diabetics, we have to understand that when we have one of those days or one of those meals, that we are up and exercising within two hours to lower our blood sugar. Having said all of that, everyone who is insulin spiking at the end of a workout honestly will not have a problem (in general because everyone's body will react differently) because within the next hour, they are eating a specially designed meal (carb, protein, fat in proportion) that will negate a sudden drop in blood sugar. Proper nutrition combined with exercise is the key. "Controlled" insulin spiking will deliver the nutrients intended to the muscles in a very quick manner. I think the big question here that everyone is trying to answer is, what benefit or optimal benefit do we recieve by delivering those nutrients to our muscles that quickly. Again, as I have said before, not everyone is looking to optimize everything, but some people are. And in my personal opinion, proper and controlled insulin spiking should not have any long term negative impacts. But then again, that's just one man's opinion.

[IONOR]

Thats excellent advice (IMO)
When you think about most (If not all the) pros have spiked (or do spike there insulin) PWO and many other bodybuilders (succcesful) over the years have/do spike there insulin everyday (just about). However getting diabetes (or any other problem resulting from spiking insulin) has never been an issue in the bodybulding community (whens the last time you ever heard of a bodybuilder getting diabetes becuase of there PWO shake?)
This is becuase spiking insulin PWO is not INSULIN ABUSE and is far from abusing the body in a way that could be harmful.Diabetes won't occur overnight if you are constently eating high suger foods and not doing exersisie so it's very unlikelythat spiking insulin once a day when your body is in the right state for it is going to cuase dieabites (or a similar problem) at all. INSULIN ABUSE is the practse of just that constently feding your body high GI carbs over years not suppling your body with the right nutrients to grow.

[sooner_ed]

Originally Posted by IONOR

INSULIN ABUSE is the practse of just that constently feding your body high GI carbs over years not suppling your body with the right nutrients to grow.

...not supplying your body with the right nutrients to grow AND exercise. Think about it...what have we been taught all of our lives? Diet and exercise, diet and exercise. Not just diet and not just exercise. Too many people refuse to find time to exercise or just refuse to exercise period. As we all know, muscle burns fat, but too many people think that if they weightlift, that they're "bulking." They don't understand that you can build muscle while looking toned. If people would just add a little light weightlifting to their lifestyle, they would be shocked at the results, a toner looking body and less body fat.

[IONOR]

Originally Posted by sooner_ed

They don't understand that you can build muscle while looking toned. If people would just add a little light weightlifting to their lifestyle, they would be shocked at the results, a toner looking body and less body fat.

Yers however it's the combanation of diet trainning and sleeping whats going to build muscle not just weights (there's a world of a diffrence between weightlifting and bodybuilding). On another note it's almost phisologically impossible to burn fat while building muscle both require opposite calorie intake (bulking (building mass) more calories than your body burns in a day and cutting (burning fat) less) It is also very difficult to put on a lot of quility mass without putting on at least some fat. That's why bodybuilders have these two phases (one of them at least).
Yes at the end of the day the person would have a much heathier body (a muscler looking body and less bodyfat) but not without the three components eating training and sleep.

[sooner_ed]

very true. I left out sleeping. I disagree with it being impossible to burn fat while building muscle. I believe if your primary goal is to lose weight and you are using cardio to do it, then you will burn some muscle in the process. That's the dilemna when doing both cardio and weight training. If you're focusing on lifting weights, you will build muscle and it's that muscle that burns fat. The problem is for those of us who do both cardio and lifting intensely. Intense cardio will burn muscle. We just have to find a proper balance between the two that will minimize the muscle burn and maximize the fat burning. That is a very fine line. That is why body builders don't put much focus in cardio. They don't want to burn the muscle. Very fine line there. I'm still trying to find that line! Once again, just another man's opinion.

[IONOR]

No it's not impossible (to burn fat while building muscle) esspecially in the "newbie" days off trainning. However it is a lot more efficent (and ussally effectve) to do the cut and bulking stages that a bodybuuilder usally goes through anyway. In a sense yes cardio will burn fat and weights build muscle. However if your diet is not what it should be (more or less depending on what your goal is) you won't get anything done.It comes more down to diet whether you will build muscle or burn fat at all. Intense cardio won't burn muscle if you use it correctly there are certian ways to do intense cardio and burn more fat than you would have done other ways (HIIT).
One of the reasons why some bodybuilders don't put much focus into cardio (esspecially on a bulk) is that they don't want to burn muscle. However many feel that it takes up to many calories and gym time that they could be using to either lift weights or even rest.

[sooner_ed]

We are in complete agreement. You can diet or you can exercise but if you don't put the two together, you're just spinning your wheels.