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Old 25-Jan-05, 07:07 PM   #1
gordian
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Question

L-Glutamine before/after ?


just wondering if taking L-Glutamine in all of my shakes is a waste or if it has any adverse effects?
my instinct tells me that only after workouts does it truly help, and before it may hurt... because i know (although i'm not sure how) L-Glutamine prevents catabolism (muscle breakdown). does this mean when i'm taking the L-Glutamine before my workouts it's making my workouts more difficult (ie, more effort needed to rip my muscle fibers)?
anyone that knows what they're doing can probably tell i'm quite confused at this juncture. any help/advice is greatly appreciated.
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Old 25-Jan-05, 08:09 PM   #2
Barry
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I take it in the morning, before working out, and after working out. When I ran out a while ago I did not buy more cause I read that it really does not help. Well about a week later I noticed my recovery time much longer than usual and I started taking it again. About a week later my recovery time went back to where it was so I am convinced beyond any doubts.
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Old 27-Jan-05, 11:24 AM   #3
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Just bin it and count yourself lucky you didnt waste more money on it. Its absolutely useless as training supplement
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Old 28-Jan-05, 10:12 AM   #4
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glutamine does actually benefit those with gut and digestive problems as i can attest to.

but you can get enough in solid food and protein shakes
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Old 28-Jan-05, 02:29 PM   #5
Todd
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Studies show that there is a fair amount of evidence that glutamine helps with many things, as well as aiding with muscle gains. Below are two articles with the research sources footnoted at the bottom of each article.

Article 1

article 2

Article 3

I would take glutamine upon waking up with your first food intake, before and after your workouts/cardio sessions, as well as right before going to bed!
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Old 03-Feb-05, 12:21 PM   #6
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unfortunately most glutamine taken orally gets absorbed by the gut and is done with. good supplement but only if used under the right conditions. ast does sell a glutamine supplement so their info will be biased
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Old 03-Feb-05, 03:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abear
unfortunately most glutamine taken orally gets absorbed by the gut and is done with. good supplement but only if used under the right conditions. ast does sell a glutamine supplement so their info will be biased
Take note of this part of my post ..."Below are two articles with the research sources footnoted at the bottom of each article."

The research presented on those AST articles was collected and taken from reputable resources, ...not part of AST themselves. So no, their information in those articles is not biased, even tho they do sell glutamine.
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Old 03-Feb-05, 05:18 PM   #8
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good point but look at what they're presenting

Beneficial effect of glutamine on exercise-induced apoptosis of rat neutrophils.

Lagranha CJ, Senna SM, de Lima TM, Silva EP, Doi SQ, Curi R, Pithon-Curi TC.

Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Institute of Biomedical Sciences, University of Sao Paulo, Av. Prof. Lineu Prestes 1524, 05508-900 Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil.

INTRODUCTION/PURPOSE: The effect of a single bout of intensive exercise on apoptosis of rat neutrophils and the possible prevention by glutamine administration was examined. The experiments were performed in sexually immature and sexually mature male rats as to examine the possible involvement of sexual maturation in the effect of exercise. METHODS: Exercise was carried out on a treadmill for 1 h before rats were killed by decapitation. Aqueous solution of glutamine was given by gavage (1 g.kg-1 body weight), 1 h before exercise. Neutrophils were obtained by intraperitoneal lavage with phosphate-buffered saline (PBS), 4 h after injection of oyster glycogen solution. The cells were then analyzed for apoptosis by flow cytometry and fluorescence microscopy. Pro- and antiapoptotic gene expression was evaluated by reverse transcriptase chain reaction (RT-PCR). RESULTS: Neutrophils obtained from immature and mature exercised rats showed an increase in DNA fragmentation, chromatin condensation, and phosphatidylserine externalization. This suggests that all neutrophils suffered apoptosis. To study the possible mechanism involved, the production of reactive oxygen metabolites, expression of genes involved in apoptosis and mitochondrial transmembrane potential were examined. Acute exercise raised reactive oxygen metabolites production by neutrophils. Exercise did not change the expression of antiapoptotic (bcl-xL) and apoptotic (bax and bcl-xS) genes in neutrophils from immature rats but caused a significant increase of bax and bcl-xS expression and provoked a significant decrease of bcl-xL expression in cells from mature rats. Exercise also induced a marked loss of mitochondrial depolarization in neutrophils. Oral glutamine supplementation partially prevented the exercise-induced apoptosis in neutrophils from sexually immature and mature rats. CONCLUSION: The protective effect of glutamine on neutrophil apoptosis induced by acute exercise possibly occurs by preservation of mitochondrial function.

vs stuff like this

Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.
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Old 03-Feb-05, 06:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abear
good point but look at what they're presenting

Beneficial effect of glutamine on exercise-induced apoptosis of rat neutrophils.
Yes, and that was just one source of info that I cited in my previous post. There are two other ones, and I have come across numerous other scientific studies that support the same type of evidence.

Perhaps some of the best evidence is simply going out and trying glutamine for one's self for several months to see if it does actually make a difference. I for one have personally used glutamine for several months at a time and then have been off of it for several months at a time, keeping all other variables the same. Believe me, the difference is not slight. I would have to side on the articles that are "pro" glutamine. Nothing beats witnessing it first hand. All I can say is for everyone to try it and make their own decisions on whether they feel it does anything or nothing.
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Old 05-Feb-05, 06:15 PM   #10
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Here is a run down ont the benefits of glutamine as for an anabolic effect though it
helps those with illness and serious aa loss for a health athlete benefits are extremely doubtful



. MECHANISM OF ACTION
1. SUMMARY: Glutamine has traditionally been considered a non-essential amino acid. It is the most abundant amino acid in the body. Glutamine stimulates anabolism of protein and inhibits catabolism of protein. Glutamine is essential for maintaining intestinal function, the immune response, and amino acid homeostasis. Glutamine serves as a metabolic fuel for rapidly proliferating cell lines such as enterocytes, colonocytes, fibroblasts, lymphocytes, and macrophages (Fraga Fuentes et al, 1996). Glutamine inhibits net protein loss and protein breakdown in muscle (MacLennan et al, 1988). The body is depleted of glutamine stores during trauma, hypercatabolism, immunodeficiency, malnutrition or extreme stress and in these states it may be considered an essential amino acid (Lacey, 1990). Glutamine has been shown to support immune function, to protect oral and gastrointestinal mucosa from iatrogenic injury during radiation and chemotherapy, and to decrease tumor activity in an animal model (Jones et al, 1999; Houdijk et al, 1998; Anderson et al, 1998; Klimberg et al, 1996). It has also been found to protect lymphocyte counts and reduce gut permeability in advanced esophageal cancer patients receiving radiochemotherapy (Yoshida et al, 1998). Glutamine also caused an increase in T-cell DNA synthesis in postoperative surgical patients receiving total parenteral nutrition (O'Riordain et al, 1994).
2. ANABOLIC EFFECT:
a. Glutamine is produced in skeletal muscle from glutamate and ammonia catalysed by glutamine synthetase. Glutamate can be obtained from circulation, breakdown of protein, or a catalyzation process (Rohde et al, 1996).
b. Skeletal muscle contains up to 60% of total body glutamine stores. Glutamine is released into circulation during metabolic stress, trauma, and surgery. Glutamine muscle concentration is affected by injury, sepsis, prolonged stress, and starvation (Miller, 1999). Plasma glutamine levels decrease after severe organic injuries partly because the small intestine uses it faster than it can be produced by skeletal muscle (Cukier et al, 1999).
c. Hormones, concentrations of electrolytes, and branched-chain amino acids influence a transport mechanism allowing glutamine to be released by crossing the cell membrane. Glutamine intracellular concentration changes are an early sign of skeletal muscle protein catabolism (Vinnars et al, 1990; MacLennan et al, 1988).
3. ANTIBACTERIAL EFFECT:
a. Glutamine treated trauma patients had increased plasma glutamine concentrations as well as increased concentrations of both citrulline and arginine suggesting that glutamine caused stimulation of renal production of arginine. In rats, glutamine has been shown to stimulate the renal production of arginine by raising plasma concentrations of the precursor citrulline. Arginine has been shown to stimulate lymphocyte immune responses and wound healing. Soluble tumor necrosis factors p55 and p75 were also lower compared to controls suggesting a lower systemic inflammatory response. All of these were found parallel with a decreased number of infectious complications (Houdijk et al, 1998).
4. ANTIOXIDANT EFFECT:
a. Glutamine is manufactured in the liver from glutamate, cysteine, and glycine. It is an extremely important substrate in supporting liver detoxification processes and acts as a powerful antioxidant protecting hepatocytes. Acute poisoning and high dose chemotherapy in bone marrow transplantation can cause patients to suffer from hepatic failure. Glutamine supplementation has been shown to preserve glutathione liver stores and protect the liver from free radical damage after acute toxicity from acetaminophen poisoning and high-dose cytotoxic therapy during bone marrow transplants (Hong et al, 1992; Brown et al, 1998).
5. DIGESTIVE SUPPORT:
a. Glutamine has been found to diminish electrolyte and water loss during acute bouts of diarrhea. An animal in vitro study suggested that this effect was likely due to increased stimulation of sodium and sodium chloride transport in piglet rotavirus-damaged jejunum. Glutamine functioned as a dual transporter crossing the cell membrane attached to sodium (electrogenic effect). It also stimulated electroneutral absorption of sodium chloride (Rhoads et al, 1991). In a study of patients with human immunodeficiency virus, L-glutamine 4 and 8 grams per day reduced intestinal permeability, diarrhea, and secondary infections but did not improve intestinal morphology and inflammation (Noyer et al, 1998).
6. IMMUNE SYSTEM ENHANCEMENT:
a. Lymphocyte reactivity was higher after mice received a diet enriched in glutamine. Mice were fed a glycine-enriched diet (glutamine 13.3 grams/kilogram) for 2 weeks. Increasing the amount of glutamine in the diet increased the ability of T-lymphocytes to respond to mitogenic stimulation. Increasing the oral availability of glutamine may promote the T-cell immune response (Kew et al, 1999).
b. An in vitro study found that glutamine increased the production of interleukin-2 and gamma interferon which is important for optimal lymphocyte proliferation (Rhohde et al, 1996). Glutamine supplementation caused an increase in T-cell synthesis in postoperative surgical patients receiving total parenteral nutrition (O'Riordain et al, 1994). Prolonged parenteral nutrition has been found to cause a significant decrease in secretory Immunoglobulin A (IgA), gut lamina plasma IgA, CD4 and CD8 lymphocytes in the intestinal tract. Glutamine-supplemented parenteral nutrition prevented the reduction of both B- and T-cell lines when compared to glutamine deficient parenteral nutrition in an animal study (Alverdy et al, 1992).
7. TUMOR INHIBITION/CHEMOPROTECTIVE EFFECT:
a. L-glutamine supplementation increased glutathione (GSH) levels, decreased pro-inflammatory prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) production, increased natural killer (NK) activity by 2.5 times and resulted in a 40% decrease in tumor growth in a rat breast cancer model (Klimberg et al, 1996). Serum levels of L-glutamine in gastric carcinoma patients were reduced when compared to controls in a Russian study (Anderson et al, 1998). Glutamine supplementation increased the cytoxicity of methotrexate. An animal study showed a 300% increase in the therapeutic delivery of methotrexate to targeted tumor cells. Glutamine increased the therapeutic window of methotrexate and 5-FU while protecting the patient from the gastrointestinal adverse effects of the drug (Rubio et al, 1998).
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Old 08-Feb-05, 10:15 AM   #11
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yea, i used glutamine for 6 years (1996-2002). the first company to have it on the market was Osmo and i used theirs for a long time.

did anyone catch this part from my last post:

Exercise was carried out on a treadmill for 1 h before rats were killed by decapitation.

for sure a "what the...." moment
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