Pro-hormones and Steroids - Why?

[LifterMike]

Ive never tried them, but I considered them for awhile. I mean the reasons are obvious why you would want to take it. It increases mass and strength results. This means achieving goals quicker. However the cons outweigh the pros in my opinion.

[pbody]

Originally Posted by Todd

BUT, what they don't think about is the after effects...the effects along the way, the possible complications that might occur when their body reacts to them, and the fact that in order to continuously see the gains acheived off steroids you have to keep cycling them off and on..and this leads to long term usage...more money, etc..

The same could be said about the mass of supplements some people get sucked into using. Perhaps to a lesser extent, but I do know more than a few people who've gone overboard in this department.

Originally Posted by Todd

What it comes down to is greed, selfishness, lack of research of AS, impatience, and too much looking at FLEX mag pics!

I'm sure that FLEX and other mags are a big reason for recreational steroid use. The same way cosmo probably inspired more than one boob job. Unattainable body types (by natural means) are far to common in media.

I disagree about your lack of research comment though. I'm sure there are many people who will abuse them without knowing the consequences, I have no problem calling these people foolish. However, there are also many people who go in with a full knowledge of possible side effects and what can be done to counter or minimize them. It's clear that steroids do work, whether possible side effects are worth it or not will be a personal decision and not one I'd be willing to pass judgement on easily provided that decision was made with a head full of knowledge.


A question for IronMan, did you start your cycles with your shoulder in mind, or was that just a happy side effect?

[Todd]

Originally Posted by IronMan

This is an open thread -- no where did I read that we had to answer in one certain "context". Also, I was relating something that happened to me. And you have the gall to judge that as being unworthy of discussion? I'm having a hard time getting my mind around that one....

I never meant for what I said to be taken as I meant that what you said to be "unworthy" of discussion...I realize this is an open forum, but you also have to realize that I was responding in my earlier posts within the context of what was being discussed right from the beginning of the thread so that is why my posts refelected the view and answers it did, and not towards the medical view of things, as yours did....

Originally Posted By:RichUK

"I guess what I’m trying to find out is this. Why do Non-Professional Bodybuilders decide to take steroids and pro-hormones? What makes your Average Joe wake up one morning and make the decision to use chemicals to enhance their physique?

Hardcore Bodybuilders and pros are nearly always looking to add more and more muscle to their frames; hence steroids work well for them. It’s probably fair to say that not everyone who takes these things wants to be huge however. I’m 6ft1 and am only aiming for 190-200lbs. I’m sure many people are in the same boat and already on the way to achieving their goals naturally, yet they go for the chemical route instead."

IronMan, I am not knocking what happened to you nor am I saying it's not a rightfully part of this discussion, and I do agree that steroids do have very many positive medical purposes. All I am saying is that aside from the positive medical usages, steroids are used by the great majority to get big fast, to get a quick fix, by many who simply do not want to take the time, etc., to build a worthy physique over time. Like I said before, the millions of users who buy steroids each year from the black market are not buying them for the intended use of treating "medical" conditions.

To each their own though.... that is what i always say...what I said above is JUST my opinion, that is all.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by pbody

The same could be said about the mass of supplements some people get sucked into using. Perhaps to a lesser extent, but I do know more than a few people who've gone overboard in this department.

Yep, I agree, the supplement industry is the biggest money-taker out there!

I disagree about your lack of research comment though. I'm sure there are many people who will abuse them without knowing the consequences, I have no problem calling these people foolish. However, there are also many people who go in with a full knowledge of possible side effects and what can be done to counter or minimize them. It's clear that steroids do work, whether possible side effects are worth it or not will be a personal decision and not one I'd be willing to pass judgement on easily provided that decision was made with a head full of knowledge.

I'd agree with you here as well...there are many who don't research it and just don't care (all they want is to get big no matter what the cost), and then there are those who go for it with a very informed decision.

Originally Posted by pbody

A question for IronMan, did you start your cycles with your shoulder in mind, or was that just a happy side effect?

It was a very happy side effect. My natural gains had stopped, and my size wasn't anywhere near what I wanted it to be. At 40 years old, the body has its limits, so I decided to use pharmeceutical hormones as a boost. Three years of natural lifting put about 20 pounds on my frame. A few cycles later I had added 25 more pounds. That extra 25 pounds really did change things in my life. People complimented me on how much better I looked "since I had finally filled out". Managers at work listened to me and took my recommendations. It was just crazy.....all because I looked better.

I look in the mirror and I'm still not happy. There are things I still need to work on, places to add more size. Maybe I'll do more cycles, maybe not. But my upper back healing......that was a true blessing.

[Lift2Live]

We all know juicing and prohormones will aid in growth. People want to get bigger. The question really should be is, "Why do you want to be bigger than what nature may have intended?" "Why, when your body says no, do you feel the need to make it say yes?" Todd may have been bluntly honest, but it's true. If a person wants to try and justify why they've used, feel free but most people still understand that it's done with one thing in mind. Ego. Why do I personally lift? For my ego, yep. I don't juice nor will i ever. I will never use prohormones ever but, why do I still do it? Because I want the self confidence and acceptance that comes with getting as big as I can get and THEN, being able to say "Yep, I did it all natural!" It's the same reason I've tried to lift the same weight as someone in the gym but knew I couldn't. Everyone wants to feel accepted. Why, if a job is only supposed to finance our lives, do we put so much into them to the point that families suffer, or that we strive to succeed past a predecessor? For the, "Well done!" and the "Good job!" It's nothing more.

Originally Posted by Todd

I was responding in my earlier posts within the context of what was being discussed right from the beginning of the thread so that is why my posts refelected the view and answers it did, and not towards the medical view of things, as yours did.

I was talking from personal experience, Todd....not some unrelated medical theory. In case you missed it in my earlier post:

Originally Posted by IronMan

Back in high school I tore a muscle in my upper back while lifting. It was an injury that never healed

But I guess my personal experience just doesn't fit with your views, does it?

[Todd]

Originally Posted by IronMan

I was talking from personal experience, Todd....not some unrelated medical theory. In case you missed it in my earlier post:

But I guess my personal experience just doesn't fit with your views, does it?

IronMan, I didn't miss what you had posted for starters. Secondly, I understand what you were talking about and how it was your personal experience. I agree wholeheartedely with you that YES, steroids can and are used positively for medical uses. I can see how steroids helped heal your injuries, etc. That's awesome. So, what part of that is telling you that your personal experience does not fit with my views? I don't get it. I am agreeing with you on that part of the discussion.

The only other point I was trying to make is that most of the millions of steroid users out there are not buying them for personal medical usage.

[RichUK]

Originally Posted by IronMan

A few cycles later I had added 25 more pounds. That extra 25 pounds really did change things in my life. People complimented me on how much better I looked "since I had finally filled out". Managers at work listened to me and took my recommendations. It was just crazy.....all because I looked better.

Taking this quote, and another made by Lift2Live about him lifting for ego, we're bordering on another very interesting topic - why do we work out at all? Forgetting all about steroids for a moment, what drives us to continue with this seemingly endless road?

Ironman, do you think that you had more respect from people (most noticably Managers) because you looked better, or because you knew that you looked better? Perhaps you directed yourself with more assertiveness and confidence which was noticed by all? I'd say it was probably a little of both. Speaking personally, I know that my self esteem and confidence is always on a high, especially when I can see real progress taking place in my development. It's an interesting subject anyway!

Getting back onto the topic though, I'd just like to say that I've decided it's the fault of Western society. We're constantly belittled by images of the 'body beautiful' in magazines and on TV, which many of us can never attain simply due to genetics. The proportion of our bodies, our height, our natural shape and skeletal structure are something which we're stuck with regardless of how many weights we lift or steroids we take. This is probably the prime reason for steroid use amongst recreational bodybuilders, the other factors being; unwillingness to change lifestyle and put in the time to get results naturally, poor genetics, or the hardcore attitude of 'get as big as you can, as quick as you can'.

I'm sure I could put some other reasons on there, but it's late and I'm tired!
Rich

That is an interesting point, Rich. My judgement on work things has always been sound. I know my job inside and out.....I really enjoy what I do for a living. Being more self confident about my job is a matter of intellect, because I don't believe in BS to get me where I want to go or what I need to do. Through all this, no one has told me that I appear more confident or that my personality changed, just that I look better.

As for my motivation, I've been into muscles as long as I can remember. One of my earliest memories is of a commercial on TV with Mr America flexing his bicep and cleaning a sink against a little ole housewife. Of course, the housewife won, but those arm muscles stuck with me. This was in the mid 60's. Impressive muscles have always been something I wanted....for my own satisfaction and no one else's.

PS - If anyone else remembers that commercial (it was for Ajax Cleanser, I believe) I would be interested in knowing who the bodybuilder was. And it wasn't Dave Draper -- I already found that out from his very nice wife.