Supplements???

[.V.]

No, none of us are docs. Unless you count the PhD in theology. But not a medical doctor. However you are discussing the topic with a pharmacist; an ex rev who is now a paramedic, health care instructor, anatomy & physiology teacher, instructor for the American Heart Association that teaches ALL of the classes they offer, holder of state and national credentials to teach classes to medical doctors for their CME's, person who is guided in all of his efforts by two MD's - one of whom is a damn good bodybuilder, a former big fat cripple, graduate of nursing school who chooses not to practice at this time because he likes his other job; A person who is in the diabetes testing business (not sure exactly how...but she's pretty damn smart); A powerlifter, and a student (I think).

None of these people are dumb by any means, seldom if ever totally agree on anything, but who all love do discuss these issues while being respectful of one another's ideas and opinions.

All are pretty much in agreement on one thing though, one simply can't make blanket statements as if they apply to everyone equally. Each recognizes that everyone has different needs, even if not in agreement on what those needs actually are.

Sure, there are some folks who too much protein would be detrimental, there are some who need more fat and others that need less, there are even some who have to carefully control carbs when taking them at high levels or at low levels.

But, healthy body functions are basically the same because we are all humans so somewhat similar. The differences are in how we utilize different intakes based on our individual metabolisms, endocrine systems, digestive systems, and so on.

Oh and to answer the other question. Scoop on Poop

[minime]

If you were referring to me as the student welch, i am not : i am a software developer

JAKewagner : i think you are going to have to accept that you are wrong. Nobody is saying that what YOU are doing is wrong, as everybody has already said, we all have different nutrition needs and only YOU can determine what works best for YOUR body. But realise this : you do not p*ss out excess calories, if you did, then there would be no fat people.

Fat people get fat from eating more calories than their bodies need : if what you claim is true then nobody would get fat, as their bodies would excrete the excess. If only this were the case many people would be very happy...they could wash their morning doughnut dozen down with a nice frappucino and keep their trim figures.

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

No, none of us are docs. Unless you count the PhD in theology. But not a medical doctor. However you are discussing the topic with a pharmacist; an ex rev who is now a paramedic, health care instructor, anatomy & physiology teacher, instructor for the American Heart Association that teaches ALL of the classes they offer, holder of state and national credentials to teach classes to medical doctors for their CME's, person who is guided in all of his efforts by two MD's - one of whom is a damn good bodybuilder, a former big fat cripple, graduate of nursing school who chooses not to practice at this time because he likes his other job; A person who is in the diabetes testing business (not sure exactly how...but she's pretty damn smart); A powerlifter, and a student (I think).

None of these people are dumb by any means, seldom if ever totally agree on anything, but who all love do discuss these issues while being respectful of one another's ideas and opinions.

All are pretty much in agreement on one thing though, one simply can't make blanket statements as if they apply to everyone equally. Each recognizes that everyone has different needs, even if not in agreement on what those needs actually are.

Sure, there are some folks who too much protein would be detrimental, there are some who need more fat and others that need less, there are even some who have to carefully control carbs when taking them at high levels or at low levels.

But, healthy body functions are basically the same because we are all humans so somewhat similar. The differences are in how we utilize different intakes based on our individual metabolisms, endocrine systems, digestive systems, and so on.

Oh and to answer the other question. Scoop on Poop

i see what you are saying now...but the way you and all your buddys where saying it before was that it was the only (with not saying it out right) and i no what im doing for the most part but others do not....and others could be just like me so when you say things that you have been saying you have no idea the weight that they can carry....i have not seen you put up anything that is can be bad dury this whole thread...so as a site mod... people look to you for info and all i am saying is that make sure you give a complete info..... not just the good parts of it....you where most likely thinking ohh this punk is board and all he wants to do is fight .. well thats not it at all... i love working out more then anything...that is why i came to this site to trade info with people not to be mocked by the mod..and then **** on by the others..."keep it nice"hahahaha....i just no first hand that the way that i was and am being told to workout from you guys... came real close to ending my life....and i no that im not the first person in the world to have that prob and im sure i will not be the last.... but i think that it is important for people to no what can happen.....but dont think that i have not been thinking on the stuff that all of you have said....even if i dont agree it is still good to get others views on things....

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by minime

If you were referring to me as the student welch, i am not : i am a software developer

JAKewagner : i think you are going to have to accept that you are wrong. Nobody is saying that what YOU are doing is wrong, as everybody has already said, we all have different nutrition needs and only YOU can determine what works best for YOUR body. But realise this : you do not p*ss out excess calories, if you did, then there would be no fat people.

Fat people get fat from eating more calories than their bodies need : if what you claim is true then nobody would get fat, as their bodies would excrete the excess. If only this were the case many people would be very happy...they could wash their morning doughnut dozen down with a nice frappucino and keep their trim figures.

no that is not even close to what i am saying ... but just keep on mocking me please it is great really it is...i said that you can not proceess .... everything at once.....and there are fat people because they do not do enough for the cals they intake does not mean that they do not crap out some of there cals .....

[minime]

Jake I am not 'mocking' you at all. I am just suggesting that you take the advice/information that people here are giving you on board : as Welch said, though there are no doctors here there are many people who DO know what they are talking about.

I think it is great that you are posting your opinions on the board, but you are getting defensive and you are not listening.

i do not know very much at all about the mechanics of a metabolism: I am no scientist. All I know is that common sense tells me that you do not p*ss out your calories, all the food you eat is made up of protein carbohydrates and fats. ALL of these are energy sources for the body, it is just that to your body the most PREFERABLE source is carbohydrates (therefore the most quickly and easily converted into 'energy') Protein is less preferable as an energy source than carbohydrates but this does not mean the excess is excreted, it too is stored on your body, ultimatly as fat (if not utilised by your muscles).

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by minime

Jake I am not 'mocking' you at all. I am just suggesting that you take the advice/information that people here are giving you on board : as Welch said, though there are no doctors here there are many people who DO know what they are talking about.

I think it is great that you are posting your opinions on the board, but you are getting defensive and you are not listening.

i do not know very much at all about the mechanics of a metabolism: I am no scientist. All I know is that common sense tells me that you do not p*ss out your calories, all the food you eat is made up of protein carbohydrates and fats. ALL of these are energy sources for the body, it is just that to your body the most PREFERABLE source is carbohydrates (therefore the most quickly and easily converted into 'energy') Protein is less preferable as an energy source than carbohydrates but this does not mean the excess is excreted, it too is stored on your body, ultimatly as fat (if not utilised by your muscles).

no you need to listen i have been saying you crap out protein and you do..only the stuff you dont have time process i said you pee out aminos...and yes some times in your pee there will ptotein..and i am listening .. thats why i keep asking for you to explain.... tell what carbs are and what cals are abd what proteins are what are they made out of??

[Lady C]

Lets backup for a second and address the original question

Originally Posted by JAKewagner

what are you doing eating 400 plus grams of protein..... you will piss most of that out......and you really never need that much i dont care what the goal is.....

If FMac is eating 1600 calories over a 16 hour waking period. Eats every two hours that is only 200 calories per feed session of protien. Where is the excess in this? Lets suppose he eats another 1600 calories of high fiber veggies. Lets suppose his BMR is 2800 calories per day. That is only 400 calories above his BMR. IF activity is added he may actually be eating to little calories to gain lean muscle.

Originally Posted by JAKewagner

holy crap that does not explain anything..... please explain in detail where and how the stuff gets burned and where does the 400 grams go if they do not get ****ted out... and what is poo made of please explain

We are not talking about eating this all at once. Why don't you explain to me how it does get p!ssed out. Once I understand your logic then maybe we can discuss the differences intelligently.

[.V.]

As I said before, if a post seemed to be mocking, or making fun I apologize. A joke made between myself and others based on my own health issues that you couldn't possibly have any clue about was inappropriate.

You aren't being mocked, you are welcomed here, we all enjoy the discussions or we wouldn't be here.

We do all have somewhat different points of view on just about everything. We aren't dummies, but we do read, there is a lot of knowledge here, and no one has said, "you need to do this" to anyone. We simply share what has worked for us as individuals, what hasn't worked for us, and hope you will do the same.

However we all try to avoid making blanket statements that say "everyone should do this" or "no one should do that". Because if we do, then we end up being mistaken.

Be nice wasn't aimed specifically at you. It was a reminder to all of us (many of who love to debate) that we need to keep our debates civil and avoid personal attacks. As this is something that often happens on forums when people debate issues.

We like to have friendly reminders to keep things civil because that's the kind of board this is. There is another that I go to that is very hardcore with political, religious, and hardcore bodybuilding stuff going on...flames are encouraged over there. This one, we try to avoid that.

So join in, talk, discuss, have fun. But please keep it fun.

minime, I apoligise too. I don't know why I thought you were a student. So you are smarter than I thought.

And Jake, site mod doesn't mean expert. It means one who tries to keep things peaceful, on track, and keep the spammers at bay. That is all it is. Nothing special about it really.

Lots of folks here are experts in what they do. We have personal trainers, bodybuilders, powerlifters, nutritionists, dieticians, bodyweight trainers, martial artists, and some just regular folks like me who are interested in improving their own health and fitness levels. In my own field, I'm an expert. In fitness, I'm an amatuer.

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by Lady C

Lets backup for a second and address the original question If FMac is eating 1600 calories over a 16 hour waking period. Eats every two hours that is only 200 calories per feed session of protien. Where is the excess in this? Lets suppose he eats another 1600 calories of high fiber veggies. Lets suppose his BMR is 2800 calories per day. That is only 400 calories above his BMR. IF activity is added he may actually be eating to little calories to gain lean muscle.

We are not talking about eating this all at once. Why don't you explain to me how it does get p!ssed out. Once I understand your logic then maybe we can discuss the differences intelligently.

i said that you crap it out... and yes you do crap out protein.... i dont no why you guys are stuck on the pee thing and yes sometimes there is protein in your pee.. even no very little

[Lady C]

Originally Posted by JAKewagner

i said that you crap it out... and yes you do crap out protein.... i dont no why you guys are stuck on the pee thing and yes sometimes there is protein in your pee.. even no very little

How is one crapping it out if you are ingesting LESS than you are using?

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by Lady C

How is one crapping it out if you are ingesting LESS than you are using?

that is the point you are not using all of it..... no one short of ronnie coleman.. needs 400 or 500 grams..... i no it is good to have more then you need but it is just that you dont need it

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

As I said before, if a post seemed to be mocking, or making fun I apologize. A joke made between myself and others based on my own health issues that you couldn't possibly have any clue about was inappropriate.

You aren't being mocked, you are welcomed here, we all enjoy the discussions or we wouldn't be here.

We do all have somewhat different points of view on just about everything. We aren't dummies, but we do read, there is a lot of knowledge here, and no one has said, "you need to do this" to anyone. We simply share what has worked for us as individuals, what hasn't worked for us, and hope you will do the same.

However we all try to avoid making blanket statements that say "everyone should do this" or "no one should do that". Because if we do, then we end up being mistaken.

Be nice wasn't aimed specifically at you. It was a reminder to all of us (many of who love to debate) that we need to keep our debates civil and avoid personal attacks. As this is something that often happens on forums when people debate issues.

We like to have friendly reminders to keep things civil because that's the kind of board this is. There is another that I go to that is very hardcore with political, religious, and hardcore bodybuilding stuff going on...flames are encouraged over there. This one, we try to avoid that.

So join in, talk, discuss, have fun. But please keep it fun.

minime, I apoligise too. I don't know why I thought you were a student. So you are smarter than I thought.

And Jake, site mod doesn't mean expert. It means one who tries to keep things peaceful, on track, and keep the spammers at bay. That is all it is. Nothing special about it really.

Lots of folks here are experts in what they do. We have personal trainers, bodybuilders, powerlifters, nutritionists, dieticians, bodyweight trainers, martial artists, and some just regular folks like me who are interested in improving their own health and fitness levels. In my own field, I'm an expert. In fitness, I'm an amatuer.

well just as i said people do look to you for info... i see them ask you stuff but that is not the point .... well thats good that they got you on the job to keep the peace...... hey do you crap out any protein?(i dont mean you a as in i mean as a person)

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by Lady C

Lets backup for a second and address the original question If FMac is eating 1600 calories over a 16 hour waking period. Eats every two hours that is only 200 calories per feed session of protien. Where is the excess in this? Lets suppose he eats another 1600 calories of high fiber veggies. Lets suppose his BMR is 2800 calories per day. That is only 400 calories above his BMR. IF activity is added he may actually be eating to little calories to gain lean muscle.

We are not talking about eating this all at once. Why don't you explain to me how it does get p!ssed out. Once I understand your logic then maybe we can discuss the differences intelligently.

you mean assume.(im not saying that is not what he does).. well we no that will make us... but this is the first really reply about how it might work...

[Lady C]

Since you seem to have it all figured out - please enlighten us. Tell us how it works.

[trainerty]

Wow, this has become a heated debate.

I did a little research into the matter. From what I have read, most nutrition/strength coaches (olympic and professional) will have their athletes eating 2-3 grams of protein per Kilogram (not pound). The most recent study points to 14 year old soccer players intake of 1.40g per kg a day balanced the nitrogen losses. That is just 40g more than what a coach potato teen needs.

Another study shows strength training athletes (usually maximal strength training) have the necessity of taking in extra protein because:
- support of elevation of protein sysnthesis (muscle making magic)
- the catabolic loss of amino acids scavenged by the body for fuel for extended weight training.
- creates a positive energy balance required for "anabolism".

Using the nitrogen balance method, only modest increases will be necessary to create this environment.

So, I can see both sides of this fight, but studies point to a lower intake to sustain proteins anabolic effect.

I would guess the only time someone should slam massive amounts of protein would be during a short "power eating" phase.

Just food for thought