Supplements???

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by trainerty

Wow, this has become a heated debate.

I did a little research into the matter. From what I have read, most nutrition/strength coaches (olympic and professional) will have their athletes eating 2-3 grams of protein per Kilogram (not pound). The most recent study points to 14 year old soccer players intake of 1.40g per kg a day balanced the nitrogen losses. That is just 40g more than what a coach potato teen needs.

Another study shows strength training athletes (usually maximal strength training) have the necessity of taking in extra protein because:
- support of elevation of protein sysnthesis (muscle making magic)
- the catabolic loss of amino acids scavenged by the body for fuel for extended weight training.
- creates a positive energy balance required for "anabolism".

Using the nitrogen balance method, only modest increases will be necessary to create this environment.

So, I can see both sides of this fight, but studies point to a lower intake to sustain proteins anabolic effect.

I would guess the only time someone should slam massive amounts of protein would be during a short "power eating" phase.

Just food for thought

thank you there we go there is some info this what i have been looking for this hole time ... not people just saying you are wrong or mocking really provideing info.(im not saying that you are saying im right)..and in nice orderly fashion...

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by Lady C

Since you seem to have it all figured out - please enlighten us. Tell us how it works.

no i really dont have anything figured out....not as much as all of you i guess im just asking but no one is telling me ..... dont say some stuff like it gets burn all 100% of it does where does the stuff go... and i asked what it is made up of ... so that we are all on the same page....im not saying that im right and im not saying that you are all wrong... i really want to just trade info.. that is why i am asking... what and where does all this stuff go???i mean as i said before you do not process it all if you take alot at one point is that true???

[F_Mac]

Jake, I will attempt this for the last time, then i'm out, you can keep ragging on me and all the other guys out there that are big and strong for eating this way, but I think i'll stick to what works for me.

Say you have a simple 6oz chicken breast. Meat is (on average) 20% protein, thus, in this chicken breast you would have about 1.2 oz (34g) of protein and the rest is simply filler (and water) that gets passed through your body and out the other end. This is where "crap" comes from......you are not crapping out protein, only the waste that is not needed by your body. If any excess protein is consumed, the calories contained will go into your fat stores, not crapped out.

Since I am getting leaner on 350-400g per day I can only assume that all of it is being used. Please point out the flaw in this logic if you can. You can keep saying you don't "believe" I need it but bottom line is, my body is using all of it, and storing none of it.

Saying you don't think it's being used is pointless unless you can back it up with something. I have backed up my statement, now you need to back up yours or stop posting because saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

[Lady C]

People are trying to help you understand but you are not listening.

To expand on what FMac just said. It has to do with the body's ability to use the food (protien) 100%. This is called the biological value. Since not all proteins are 100% on the BV scale one may have to eat MORE than 1.0g per kg LBM to get full synthesis of the protien.

Here is more info on BV

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by F-Mac

Jake, I will attempt this for the last time, then i'm out, you can keep ragging on me and all the other guys out there that are big and strong for eating this way, but I think i'll stick to what works for me.

Say you have a simple 6oz chicken breast. Meat is (on average) 20% protein, thus, in this chicken breast you would have about 1.2 oz (34g) of protein and the rest is simply filler (and water) that gets passed through your body and out the other end. This is where "crap" comes from......you are not crapping out protein, only the waste that is not needed by your body. If any excess protein is consumed, the calories contained will go into your fat stores, not crapped out.

Since I am getting leaner on 350-400g per day I can only assume that all of it is being used. Please point out the flaw in this logic if you can. You can keep saying you don't "believe" I need it but bottom line is, my body is using all of it, and storing none of it.

Saying you don't think it's being used is pointless unless you can back it up with something. I have backed up my statement, now you need to back up yours or stop posting because saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

well for one the breast that you say is 34 grams.... well it is not a complete protein there for you will not process of it....there are very few things that a complete protein(eggs are one)....so if you are not getting complete proteins you are not getting all the proteins.. and just because it works does not mean it is the best or the only way....and im not ragging on anyone im saying that that is not the only way and it may not even be the best way.... if it works for you great... i wish you the best....

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by Lady C

People are trying to help you understand but you are not listening.

To expand on what FMac just said. It has to do with the body's ability to use the food (protien) 100%. This is called the biological value. Since not all proteins are 100% on the BV scale one may have to eat MORE than 1.0g per kg LBM to get full synthesis of the protien.

Here is more info on BV

yes that is what i was saying you are not getting all the protein... but you can if you eat stuff to complete the chain...and my other point is that some of your poo is made up of proteins.....and sorry for the post about the incomplete proteins i did not see you post before i posted it...

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by F-Mac

Jake, I will attempt this for the last time, then i'm out, you can keep ragging on me and all the other guys out there that are big and strong for eating this way, but I think i'll stick to what works for me.

Say you have a simple 6oz chicken breast. Meat is (on average) 20% protein, thus, in this chicken breast you would have about 1.2 oz (34g) of protein and the rest is simply filler (and water) that gets passed through your body and out the other end. This is where "crap" comes from......you are not crapping out protein, only the waste that is not needed by your body. If any excess protein is consumed, the calories contained will go into your fat stores, not crapped out.

Since I am getting leaner on 350-400g per day I can only assume that all of it is being used. Please point out the flaw in this logic if you can. You can keep saying you don't "believe" I need it but bottom line is, my body is using all of it, and storing none of it.

Saying you don't think it's being used is pointless unless you can back it up with something. I have backed up my statement, now you need to back up yours or stop posting because saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

and it also depends on how much you eat at one time....your body can not absorb....an unlimited amount at one time.... so if you intake to much at one time you will crap it out....but as i think lady c said if you spread it out you should absorb it all.. but instead of you saying how you intake your protein you....you just say you are wrong it works....(well only if you do it right )not to say that you are doing it right....but you guys forget that i dont no you and i dont no your history so....so of the things i say are true...(maybe not for you)but for some people... so please tell me how you do it.... and how you work out... this is really the best way for me to understand....not say ohh you dont no what you are saying it works....please dont give me some crap like that... just explain why you need that much(and dont just say i want to be strong) and how you intake it that will be the best way for me to understand....... and nothing is exact... so please stop acting like it is.....and there are very few things that can be proven so... there is no way to tell what works best for people as a hole just what works good for the one person thats it....

[Lady C]

Originally Posted by JAKewagner

yes that is what i was saying you are not getting all the protein... but you can if you eat stuff to complete the chain...and my other point is that some of your poo is made up of proteins.....and sorry for the post about the incomplete proteins i did not see you post before i posted it...

Actually you are not excreting proteins but its byproducts like uric acid, water, etc.

[riseboi]

Ok, I've been looking through this thread off and on for the past couple hours, and I'm totally confused. But, I would like to know what condition or diagnosis you were given to explain how excess protein caused all these issues for you.

FWIW, I'll throw in a few things I believe to be true.
1. Yes, you can "crap" out excess protein. Although, a great majority of it is either used to build/replace lean tissue, used for energy (secondary to glucose & fat), or converted to fat.
2. "Supplements" covers a wide range of products. Some have their place, some do not. Unfortunately, I do not have the convenience of allowing my diet to fulfill my dietary/vitamin needs.
3. A person does not need to consume more than 2g/kg of bodyweight to get a proper amount of protein. Though, I have not heard or read anything in regards to what too much protein can do, hence my question as to what condition/diagnosis you had. I'd like to reseach it.

Just my $0.02


And while you might take offense to this, it has to be said, that it would help if you typed more complete sentences that are clear and coherent. Run-ons and a bunch of "..." do not make for easy reading.

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by riseboi

Ok, I've been looking through this thread off and on for the past couple hours, and I'm totally confused. But, I would like to know what condition or diagnosis you were given to explain how excess protein caused all these issues for you.

FWIW, I'll throw in a few things I believe to be true.
1. Yes, you can "crap" out excess protein. Although, a great majority of it is either used to build/replace lean tissue, used for energy (secondary to glucose & fat), or converted to fat.
2. "Supplements" covers a wide range of products. Some have their place, some do not. Unfortunately, I do not have the convenience of allowing my diet to fulfill my dietary/vitamin needs.
3. A person does not need to consume more than 2g/kg of bodyweight to get a proper amount of protein. Though, I have not heard or read anything in regards to what too much protein can do, hence my question as to what condition/diagnosis you had. I'd like to reseach it.

Just my $0.02


And while you might take offense to this, it has to be said, that it would help if you typed more complete sentences that are clear and coherent. Run-ons and a bunch of "..." do not make for easy reading.

a lot of protein in your diet can make your bp go up.... witch can cause a lot of things do happen.... if unchecked it can kill you... and it is not like i had a of heath probs i had none before this event.so after a hole year of tests and in and out of bed and about five docs...they all came to one thing that all the protein that was coursing through my body was the cause. so after all of that they said that a lot of younger and younger people( males for the most part) are getting high bp and that more protein then is needed is what did it. so i cut back on my protein intake and now i am fine. to much of anything can hurt you protein is no different..

[JAKewagner]

And while you might take offense to this, it has to be said, that it would help if you typed more complete sentences that are clear and coherent. Run-ons and a bunch of "..." do not make for easy reading.[/quote] sorry but i am at work and i will get in a lot of **** if them i am online on some forum.... so a lot of times i have to just bang my posts out with not a hole lot of time to think about putting them in proper sentences... but i will try to from now on

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by Lady C

Actually you are not excreting proteins but its byproducts like uric acid, water, etc.

well no not 100% protein but there is protein in it

[Lady C]

Originally Posted by riseboi

Though, I have not heard or read anything in regards to what too much protein can do, hence my question as to what condition/diagnosis you had. I'd like to reseach it.

Diets containing excess protein can be harmful to the kidneys and can lead to unwanted weight gain if the excess calories are stored instead of metabolized.

Eating excessive protein, like most Americans do, is bad for your kidneys, liver, bones, cardiovascular system, and promotes vitamin and mineral deficiencies. It causes dehydration and is linked to osteoporosis, hypertension, and some forms of cancer. Too much protein is a bad thing.

Proteins have nitrogen in them and their breakdown in the liver creates ammonia. Ammonia is toxic. It is a poison to every cell in your body, especially your brain cells. So you pee it out. This is partly the point in going pee, to save your body from ammonia. Excessive protein intake can also make your blood acidic. To resist this change your body forces water out of your blood and pulls calcium from your bones into it. Another problem with high protein intake is that it usually means certain foods, like brussel sprouts and other vegetables, are being displaced from the diet. This is a bummer because vegetables provide many important things like vitamins, minerals, and fiber.

source

How Much Protein?
The U.S. Department of Agriculture’s most widely recommended daily intake of protein for adults is 0.36 grams per pound of body weight. That’s about 43 grams if you weigh 120 pounds, 61 grams if you weigh 170 pounds, and 72 grams if you weigh 200 pounds.

But here’s the catch: The daily recommendation is for sedentary people, and scientists have been squabbling about the protein needs of physically active people for decades. A few years ago, the American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada and the American College of Sports Medicine jointly recommended that highly active people increase their protein intake — but only slightly. They suggested that runners and other endurance athletes set their daily protein-per-pound-of-body-weight target at 0.5 to 0.6 grams; weightlifters and other strength-training athletes should aim for 0.7 to 0.8 grams. So, a 150-pound marathoner should consume 75 to 90 grams of protein; a 200-pound weightlifter needs 140 to 160 grams daily.

source

another great article

[JAKewagner]

Originally Posted by Lady C

Diets containing excess protein can be harmful to the kidneys and can lead to unwanted weight gain if the excess calories are stored instead of metabolized.

source

source

another great article

well those are some good points a lot of witch i have been trying to make. well like i said it can be bad for your health and you do pee some out and it can hurt your kidneys . and no one needs that much protein.

[Eric_B]

The most I've seen recommended by industry professionals (not from the bodybuilding/powerlifting community) is 2g/kg of bodyweight. That's a little less than 1g/lb of bodyweight.

But looking at it from the perspective of bodybuilding and powerlifting professionals, many of these athletes take in much more than 1g/lb of bodyweight with very positive results. This has been done for years, so it's pretty hard to argue against it. With a "proper" high-protein diet, one can usually avoid the negative side-effects of vitamin&mineral loss, dehydradtion, and osteoporosis. The athletes are usually supplementing their vitamins and minerals, drinking tons of water, and lifting heavy weights which increases bone density and decreases risk of osteoporosis.