Supplements???

JAKewagner · 12-Feb-07, 12:23 PM

i really dont think people... need supplements in any way... they really need to just eat right..im not even sure if or how good they work...

trainerty · 12-Feb-07, 01:53 PM

I don't think anyone can argue that diet is the most important aspect BUT I have read MANY studies that show benefits of certain supplements. It is also true that there are many companies that sell crapola on a stick to an unsuspecting buyer.

F_Mac · 12-Feb-07, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAKewagner

i really dont think people... need supplements in any way... they really need to just eat right..im not even sure if or how good they work...

It all depends on your goals. Most people probably don't need much more than a decent multivitamin.

But try eating 400+ grams of protein from whole food in a day (I know of a few who are 500+) and let me know how you feel.

FYI, there are definitely some crappy/useless supplements out there but just because you're "not even sure if or how good they work".........doesn't mean they don't.

JAKewagner · 12-Feb-07, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-Mac

It all depends on your goals. Most people probably don't need much more than a decent multivitamin.

But try eating 400+ grams of protein from whole food in a day (I know of a few who are 500+) and let me know how you feel.

FYI, there are definitely some crappy/useless supplements out there but just because you're "not even sure if or how good they work".........doesn't mean they don't.

what are you doing eating 400 plus grams of protein..... you will piss most of that out......and you really never need that much i dont care what the goal is.....

F_Mac · 12-Feb-07, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAKewagner

what are you doing eating 400 plus grams of protein..... you will piss most of that out......and you really never need that much i dont care what the goal is.....

What i'm doing is getting bigger and stronger.

Do you have any backing to anything you are saying or is this more or less just a lame trolling attempt?

trainerty · 12-Feb-07, 05:50 PM

Wow, that is a lot of protein. What is the reason for the surplus of protein? I sure I have read an article or two before praising 2 grams of protein per body pound. I do believe the reasoning was to force your body into a higher level of protein synthesis..... Is that the case?

F_Mac · 12-Feb-07, 06:02 PM

I am not certain of the exact mechanisims involved ty. All I know is that I have been able to get much stronger ever since I bumped up my intake from 1g/lb to 1.5-2g/lb of bodyweight.

**.V.** · 12-Feb-07, 06:51 PM

Many of the supps ARE useless except to the folks making money off of you when they sell them.

However, the ones I've personally found useful for me or have been ordered to take by my doctor are (in order of importance):
Food
Protein
Creatine
Dextrose (with or without creatine)...remember insulin is the most anabolic of all hormones...dextrose will make you make more of it (as will sinckers bars, but I'm not going there).
EFA dressings for my salads (yes, I consider this a suppliment)
Fish oil (cuz I need more healthy fats and HATE to eat fish).
Milkthistle
Alphalipoic Acid
A multivitamin when I remember to take it.

Oh and peeing off excess protein - that's pretty much a myth. Excess protein, much like excess carbohydrate or excess fat is either made into excess muscle (is there any such thing?) or put into the fat stores to use later.

Some folks actually CAN make use of 1.5-2g protein/lb of bodyweight.

Myself, I eat 344g each and every day (give or take a gram here and there based on the size of the chicken I'm eating this day...banty roosters have smaller breasts than store bought hens). This is only about 35% of my caloric intake (32-33% when I get extra carbs). It may be excessive for some, not nearly enough for others. But is just right for me at this time. If it would have turned out, I would post the pic my kid took last night of me sitting in my chair with a blender in my hand sipping from it here. Somehow it seems appropriate to the suppliment discussion.

JAKewagner · 12-Feb-07, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-Mac

What i'm doing is getting bigger and stronger.

Do you have any backing to anything you are saying or is this more or less just a lame trolling attempt?

yes i have lots of pro backing like my doc and my PT both both said that you need 1 gram per LEAN pound of body weight.....in 21 weeks with out supplements and with out taking retarded amount of protein i gained 8 pounds of lean mass and alot of strength.....

F_Mac · 12-Feb-07, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAKewagner

yes i have lots of pro backing like my doc and my PT both both said that you need 1 gram per LEAN pound of body weight.....in 21 weeks with out supplements and with out taking retarded amount of protein i gained 8 pounds of lean mass and alot of strength.....

well, a doc AND a PT........i'd better shut up then. Wouldn't want to listen to the guys that actually train pro athletes, bodybuilders and powerlifters....better to go off the advice of two random guys, one of which probably doesn't even lift weights.

You can make great gains off 1g per lb of lean bodyweight i'm sure. Especially if you're a newbie to lifting weights and eating a proper diet.

Bottom line is don't try to tell me that high protein doesn't work when it is working for me, and has worked for THOUSANDS of others who use it.

JAKewagner · 13-Feb-07, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-Mac

well, a doc AND a PT........i'd better shut up then. Wouldn't want to listen to the guys that actually train pro athletes, bodybuilders and powerlifters....better to go off the advice of two random guys, one of which probably doesn't even lift weights.

You can make great gains off 1g per lb of lean bodyweight i'm sure. Especially if you're a newbie to lifting weights and eating a proper diet.

Bottom line is don't try to tell me that high protein doesn't work when it is working for me, and has worked for THOUSANDS of others who use it.

well they really are not random but that is not the point.....and one of which trained bo jackson...... but either way thats not the point either.. and as far as being a troll im the one who started this thread.......and i never said that it does not work i said that you will piss or **** half of that out.....and as far as it being some sort of myth thats wrong too..... because if what welch said was true you would gain a pound a day...well more like half a pound ...and the grams are to be based of your lean body weight... not your over all...and really you are trying to say that you need ten times the protein of a normal person wow you must be something... i bet you are a sight......i mean think about it...you might use half that protein the rest will turn or fat or you will **** out.....

Maxgain · 13-Feb-07, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAKewagner

well they really are not random but that is not the point.....and one of which trained bo jackson...... but either way thats not the point either.. and as far as being a troll im the one who started this thread.......and i never said that it does not work i said that you will piss or **** half of that out.....and as far as it being some sort of myth thats wrong too..... because if what welch said was true you would gain a pound a day...well more like half a pound ...and the grams are to be based of your lean body weight... not your over all...and really you are trying to say that you need ten times the protein of a normal person wow you must be something... i bet you are a sight......i mean think about it...you might use half that protein the rest will turn or fat or you will **** out.....

Wrong, Andy is 100% right. How would you gain half a pound a day when you dont know total calorie intake or a persons expenditure.
You never piss out calories!!!!!!

Obviously with F-MAcs protein only a tiny % actaully builds muscle but the rest helps build an optimum enviornment giving him stable insulin levels a staeady energy release, higher IGF-1 a positive protein balance etc. As long as he drinks plenty of water and poerhaps occasionally checks urea levels he should be ok. You have to be genetically prone for a problem.

**.V.** · 13-Feb-07, 07:37 AM

I actually agree with calculating your nutritional needs based on the LBM estimate. However, it's still just an estimate and if you get it wrong, your training will suffer. Since I'm not carrying enough body fat right now to worry about it, I choose to base my own calcs on total body weight.

When I calculated it all very specifically based on LBM only, I ended up overtrained, with hormonal malfunctions. After I did my triathlon in May, I re-evaluated my entire training and diet routine because some lab work wasn't looking right. I'd wasted away to 170lbs by doing it that way, had the test levels of an 87 year old woman with other labs also indicating I was a post-menopausal woman...not good for a 37 year old man.

Correcting diet to what it is now was part of correcting my hormone production. It is also what helped me put on 30lbs over the summer without getting too fat. I intentionally gained a little but not so much that I didn't still have at least some visible abs (could still see all 9 of them a little bit).

I've increased the food intake (with proportional protein increase) another 400+ cals/day and still haven't gotten too fat (acceptable on a planned full year bulker).

Due to some health issues and meds I must occasionally take, I have frequent physicals and lab work done. Still no protien being expelled in the urine. (yeah, pregnant ladies aren't the only ones getting checked for that). Kidneys good, liver good, heart good, cholesterol perfect, blood pressure up a bit but still better than almost everyone else's. Heart rate is now 60 at rest instead of 50 but I'll live with that too (my own fault from minimizing cardio workouts).

Good luck to you. You actually can be healthy on 0.8g of protein/lb of LBM, lots of vegans do that. You won't put on 30lbs over the course of one summer with it though. I'm going to go for another 30 this winter too. That of course means more cals and more protein.

**minime** · 13-Feb-07, 07:56 AM

lol if you p**sed out exess protein then instead of appetite supressants and diet pills people could just eat pounds and pounds of meat to supress their appetite

lol!

i get 1.5x my bodyweight in lbs in protein grams and more sometimes. It only works out at 35% of my daily cals for the most part, which doesnt seem extreme to me.

**.V.** · 13-Feb-07, 10:24 AM

Hey minime, that's exactly how I lose weight. No really, I eat pounds and pounds of red meat every day.

I do pee a lot while doing that...

Hmmmm...

Oh yeah, forgot to mention...my little girl saw your avatar this AM while I was checking my e-mail before sending her off to school. She said to tell you, "nice tummy".