a_welch503 WORKOUT JOURNAL

[.V.]

Originally Posted by rangers97

Can we call you a "curl jockey" yet? 165 bench press and a 120 bb curl??? hmmm

Weird how the body works ain't it. Some parts on some people strong, some weak. Arm strength is genetic for me. My dad with his little 12" arms could take a 90lb roll of flashing (one in each hand) from the ground, curl them to his chest then put them up on the scaffolding over his head. The man weighs 165 at 6' tall now that he's gotten older and gained weight.

My bench? I don't ever expect it to be really big - but not from lack of trying...I'm still using the BB setup on the bench, just lying on the bench, no arch, no leg involvement, elbows out, slow/controlled movement - no speed or power - just trying to improve chest size. I'm now about where I was a few months back when I was using a PL type setup...chest isn't much bigger though - maybe a little. I'm about the same as the Sept. 25 pic (my avatar) only with a bit more body fat (still have some abs but not much) but weighed in at 195 last night. Probably back down to 190 after this morning when I got home from work though.

And the term "curl jockey" doesn't apply until I can get 135 with the BB clean followed immediately by 65 or 70 with the DB's clean. You can tell if they were clean or not by looking at the (I,I) or (I,R) notes. The "R" indicates loose form - needing a REPEAT to get it right. The "I" means I got it right and get to increase.

[rangers97]

Originally Posted by maverick

I disagree, I think a well balanced lifter should be very close on those 2. For example, I think my bench is about 225-235x6 where my BOR is about 215x6. I think the reason it seems odd to you might be because there are so many damn "bench jockeys" in every gym. I'm sick of seeing people with heavier benches than squats and 0 for deadlifts cause they never do them.

Well then we agree to disagree . I just can't see how they would be close when the bench press is a supported movement, and the BOR is a "free space" movement. And think about it, people use the blanket term "bent over row" for all those movements where a barbell is pulled to the chest from a bent over position, but what people fail to mention is how far they are bent over also when they do the move. There is a HUGE difference between a 215 pound BOR when you are bent 90 degrees at the waist as opposed to being bent 30 degrees.

I guess the perfect way to match your pushing strength vs your pulling strength would be to develop a chest supported row where the bench is flat like a bench press. That way, you would be in the same exact plane for each movement, and then you can truly compare the weights used

[rangers97]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

Weird how the body works ain't it. Some parts on some people strong, some weak. Arm strength is genetic for me. My dad with his little 12" arms could take a 90lb roll of flashing (one in each hand) from the ground, curl them to his chest then put them up on the scaffolding over his head. The man weighs 165 at 6' tall now that he's gotten older and gained weight.

My bench? I don't ever expect it to be really big - but not from lack of trying...I'm still using the BB setup on the bench, just lying on the bench, no arch, no leg involvement, elbows out, slow/controlled movement - no speed or power - just trying to improve chest size. I'm now about where I was a few months back when I was using a PL type setup...chest isn't much bigger though - maybe a little. I'm about the same as the Sept. 25 pic (my avatar) only with a bit more body fat (still have some abs but not much) but weighed in at 195 last night. Probably back down to 190 after this morning when I got home from work though.

And the term "curl jockey" doesn't apply until I can get 135 with the BB clean followed immediately by 65 or 70 with the DB's clean. You can tell if they were clean or not by looking at the (I,I) or (I,R) notes. The "R" indicates loose form - needing a REPEAT to get it right. The "I" means I got it right and get to increase.

Well regardless, I will be impressed when you get to 135 barbell curls. That is one thing I have not done yet, but I will very soon : I've done 65 pound db curls before though, and plan to get there again as well. It;s amazing when you step back and look at things how I have been all over the map with my training, but then I think back to when I was squatting 295 for sets of 5, curling 65lb dbs for sets of 6, and doing pullups with 35 pounds on the belt, I wonder, why the hell did I switch things, especially now, when I am clawing to get back to where I was.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by rangers97

when I am clawing to get back to where I was.

I know what you mean about the clawing your way back up thing...except I'm not clawing from your lowest to your highest. I'm clawing slowly...very slowly towards your lowest.

BTW, my BOR is done between torso parallel to the floor and 45 degrees. I raise up just enough to take the pressure off of the lower back (can't afford an injury) with my knees bent slightly.

[sunmedicFL]

>Watching in awe from the corner.<

You guys just wait & see!!!

[.V.]

Originally Posted by sunmedicFL

>Watching in awe from the corner.<

You guys just wait & see!!!

haha, I started with a 40lb bb curl. It gets better with time and consistant training. Rangers btw is a beast...take a look at his picture. He changes plans a lot, but so what...he has the results to get by with it. Other mere mortals like you and I...we just have to keep plugging away at it.

There is something to be said for frequent changes though...see maverick and his "periodization" ideas.

[rangers97]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

I know what you mean about the clawing your way back up thing...except I'm not clawing from your lowest to your highest. I'm clawing slowly...very slowly towards your lowest.

BTW, my BOR is done between torso parallel to the floor and 45 degrees. I raise up just enough to take the pressure off of the lower back (can't afford an injury) with my knees bent slightly.

did you ever consider using a weight belt while doing BORs? I know it is frowned upon to use them for most things other than a max squat or DL attempt, but I think it isnt such a bad idea for things like BORs. I have worn mine on occassion, and I am sure it helps even if just a little bit. Sure it would be great to be able to keep your back in position without discomfort or pain, but eventually, as the weight gets heavier, you really do risk compromising your low back in that position, and why risk it, I mean you aren't tageting your low back with this movement anyway, so who cares? I am sure DLs and SLDLs and squats without a belt would sufficiently strengthen your low back enough :

[rangers97]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

Rangers btw is a beast...take a look at his picture. .

I don't know if "beast" qualifies, lol, I've just been at it for a good 12 years now, I would hope to show some results after all that time!!!

[.V.]

You know, since I don't use one for squatting or deadlifts, I've never thought about it for BOR's. So far I've been able to keep it safe by paying attention to body mechanics and positioning myself for the most safety with the best position for results (on me) for the lift. However, when the weights actually get up there - it is definitely something to consider. I don't even have one right now. Thanks for the idea. Same for my squat and dead, eventually I may have to start using a belt for those too. Right now though, the NO, NO, NO method is working, keeping my core strong enough to keep up with my lifts, and keeping me safe.

[sunmedicFL]

Alright, I'm sure I'm going to regret this but I'll play your silly game...

What do you mean by

Originally Posted by a_welch503

the NO, NO, NO method

OK - The FNG went there - now let me have it!

[.V.]

NO belts, NO straps, NO spotter. Do it yourself with your own power. If you need assistance people or devices, the weight isn't truly yours and you shouldn't be lifting it.

My opinion only, a great many disagree with me.

[.V.]

03-07-2006

Shoulders
Mil Press..............110x3x6 (I,I) *
Upright Row............125x3x4 (I,I)
DB Shoulder Press.....47.5x3x7 (I,I) **
Shrug..................265x3x6 (I,I)
Delt Row...............70x3x10 (I,I)

Cardio
Cardioglide.....30 minutes (1800 reps)
Average HR-132 (just curious)

Nutrition
Cal-3124, P-386g (51%), C-294g (36%), F-42g (12%)

Comments
* wow, twice in a row - better improvements than expected, hit planned reps, but they just powered right up, no struggle except the very last rep - it went up good, but left me seeing stars.

** after struggling with this one for so long, a weight increase AND maximum reps on it in the same day - two weeks in a row.

Everything else - made planned improvements - all with good quality.

IOMS after the workout - progressing into DOMS already tonight...OUCH. At least tomorrow is back day, some nice deadlifts will stretch the sore shoulders right out.

Cardio left me pretty tired. I had planned to go for 45 minutes, but at 30, broke into a cold sweat and got shaky & hungry. I'm going to have to keep increasing my calories to support my current activity level. I don't know why, I've got a bit of extra fat to spare right now so it shouldn't matter. I sucked down 40g whey, 32g dextrose and felt better within 5 minutes, then starving and shaky again after another 10. I was really looking forward to my 30 minute post workout feeding.

The way I overplan everything, I'm only 18 days away from when I'm scheduled to cut for spring. I think instead of the TKD or high fat, moderate protein with reduced carbs thing this time, I'm going to go with a high protein, low to moderate fat, planned controlled complex carb cut. Carbs will be with each whole food meal, but they will be complex only - mostly green veggies. The last time when I got weak from the cut I think it was because my protein intake was too low to support the Max OT style of training. With the additional cardio I'm doing now, the muscles will continue to take a beating, they've got to be fed to survive it.

[rangers97]

do you do the military presses standing or seated? I would love to do them standing, but in a basement with a 7 foot ceiling, that ain't happening ,lol...

Good job on getting all your sets and reps on the db presses after the militaries and upright rows....I had planned on doing 2 sets of db presses after my "militaries" and upright rows today, I got 185 on the MP, so I figured using 75 pounds for the dbs would work...well I got them into position and almost dropped them...I think that's the first time that ever happened to me. SO I got pissed off, decided not to do them, and did powercleans instead, lol....I figured OK, if I ain't getting the 75s, I ain't going lower so screw it.

The powercleans were fun though...don't really know how much they work the shoulders, but they were fun and different nonetheless...

[.V.]

I'm a wuss...I do them seated. I know it's not a real MP unless done standing and if seated it's called a seated barbell shoulder press. But, this is how I was taught to do them from the beginning, when I started doing them standing, I ended up with a torn lat - how the hell that happened, I don't know - but it took direct injections of lidocaine directly into the injured muscle to be able to function...not going there again.

[.V.]

03-08-2006

Back
CDL...................255x3x5 (I,I)
BOR...................175x3x6 (R,I)
P/U.....14,10,10,9,7,7,7,6=70 (I,I)

Cardio
Swim......................1/8 mile
Cycle......................8 miles
R300/W50..................1.5 mile

Nutrition
Cal-3358, P-425g (52%), C-302g (35%), F-49g (13%), SF (4%)

Comments
Improvements on all lifts today. Pullups were horrible. I do failure sets until at around 50, I'm reaching failure in the 4-6 rep range. It took until 70 for that to happen today. Pullups till you puke isn't fun. Nausea after deadlifts - excellent quality today. Nausea after BOR's. Vomiting after pullups...I don't know if it was actual failure or the sudden spewing that actually ended the workout.

Got a swim in today - that's some hard stuff. I was doing 1/2 mile last summer today at 1/8 my right hamstring started cramping up. The lifeguard chick was pretty hot, but not hot enough to actually try to drown to get her in the water with me so I called it quits, rode the bike, then ran all I could after that. I'm tired, need to eat and go to bed. I started out doing R350/W50, but an increase on running AND decrease on walking wasn't a good idea so I dropped back to 300 runs.