a_welch503 WORKOUT JOURNAL

[.V.]

Originally Posted by Klinger

I'm honestly not sure how long you would want to stay on the hypertrophy routine. Maybe a general question to BBers on the board would help?

Here is my current plan (which is still too new for me to judge in terms of effectiveness):

Two weeks heavy (4-8 reps)
One week light/dynamic (10-15 reps)

The idea is to shock the system every couple weeks and hopefully build a little size while I'm at it.

That sounds reasonable to me, but I'm still a rank beginner and I really don't know what to do. I used to do the 3x10 thing and NEVER made any progress. Now that I do 4x6 and increase the weight when I can get 8 I've made definite strength improvement (but no size). And my wife (who was against me lifting) said I have made definite improvement. This is the same woman who just a few months ago told me I looked awful after I lost less than 100 lbs (when I was 206). I eventually got down to below 175 and had visible striations and plenty of veins visible. Now I am back up to 182 and have more veins, less fat, more striations - but I am not happy with the results I want to see some real size. I will do some calcs and post the actual muscle mass changes that I have made.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

But will 8 give you the mass to go with the strenght. I have no strength compared to many, but for me from where I started, I've built a lot - and got rid of lots of fat, but have built no mass at all. Now I want to SEE some results for a couple of months. Another question that came to me today though is if I do this and build some size, when I go back to the 4x6 - 8 routine after a few months, will I lose any size that I manage to make?

Questions, questions, questions....what to do.

Well here's how I look at it. Not sure how scientific it is but nevertheless here it is:

If you go on a BB routine for awhile, you may lose SOME strength, but in the end, you will have more muscle to work with and make dense (caused by strength training) therefor your strenght should come back and go well beyond what you were able to do before you went to the BB routine.

I am just saying as far as any more than 8 reps, my body does NOT respond to it, at least form the experience ive had, i know it doesnt. I went NOWHERE. I didnt' increase in the weight over 12 weeks time, and i was a complete newbie. So to me that tells me my body doesnt seem to work that way. Granted, i was pyramiding (which doesnt work for me either lol), so who knows.

Maybe when i start putting mass on ill try the 12 rep thing, but i really hate doing more than 8 reps on any thing.

[.V.]

Firehawk, yes that is the thing isn't it. We have to keep working with it until we find what works for us. Thanks for the input. All suggestions will help while I decide what I want to do. Heck, I may keep on doing what I am - but I keep reading that you need to change every few months and I've been doing the same thing since may. I like it, but my body probably is getting used to it. I had a really good workout today and was happy with it, but I was not whomped at the end of it.

[.V.]

Ok here are the current numbers. Just now calculated. Wt - 182 lb. BF - 10%. LBM 162 lb. Arm measurement at the peak of the bicep (if you could call it a peak) - 14.75".

Original numbers. Using the same method to calculate. wt - 300 lb. BF 60%. LBM 120 lb. Arm measurement at the peak of the bicep (least jiggly part of the flab) - 15".

On paper that looks like significant fat loss and muscle gain, but it is my understanding that it is not possible to do both at the same time. But as long as I use the same method to calculate with each time I can see that there has been some change. On paper that adds up to a 160 lb. fat loss and a 42 lb. muscle gain. On the body, it is not as impressive of a change.

In my first set of progress pics, you could barely see the abdominal muscles and more fat was visible than now. Now the "6 pack" is very visible at all times. There is still some abdominal fat below it and over the obliques. Still pretty weird looking. The saggy part at the bottom of the abdomen that I was afraid was leftover loose skin a month ago has gotten smaller and tighter. Well, it has gotten smaller and less saggy - I guess I have gotten rid of some more fat. The oblique fat has gotten smaller and tighter too. I want to keep burning this fat but change the workout to build some muscle. Thanks for your suggestions. I will ask a bodybuilder for a little advice too. I scoped out the progress pics and I know just who I'm going to ask.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

Firehawk, yes that is the thing isn't it. We have to keep working with it until we find what works for us. Thanks for the input. All suggestions will help while I decide what I want to do. Heck, I may keep on doing what I am - but I keep reading that you need to change every few months and I've been doing the same thing since may. I like it, but my body probably is getting used to it. I had a really good workout today and was happy with it, but I was not whomped at the end of it.

Making changes doesn't mean DRASTIC changes, although you could do that too.

Oh wanted to mention one more thing. I was talking to this powerlifter, 25+ years experience. And he told me he never understood why people went to BB routines because Powerlifters "are usually more heavily muscled" than bodybuilders usually, you just can't see it under the fat is all.

Something to think about.

[.V.]

Firehawk - I think I know why they do it - it is to look good. But I am not nearly big enough yet to tell any powerlifter that he looks bad.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

Ok here are the current numbers. Just now calculated. Wt - 182 lb. BF - 10%. LBM 162 lb. Arm measurement at the peak of the bicep (if you could call it a peak) - 14.75".

Original numbers. Using the same method to calculate. wt - 300 lb. BF 60%. LBM 120 lb. Arm measurement at the peak of the bicep (least jiggly part of the flab) - 15".

On paper that looks like significant fat loss and muscle gain, but it is my understanding that it is not possible to do both at the same time. But as long as I use the same method to calculate with each time I can see that there has been some change. On the body, it is not as impressive of a change.

In my first set of progress pics, you could barely see the abdominal muscles and more fat was visible than now. Now the "6 pack" is very visible at all times. There is still some abdominal fat below it and over the obliques. Still pretty weird looking. The saggy part at the bottom of the abdomen that I was afraid was leftover loose skin a month ago has gotten smaller and tighter. Well, it has gotten smaller and less saggy - I guess I have gotten rid of some more fat. The oblique fat has gotten smaller and tighter too. I want to keep burning this fat but change the workout to build some muscle. Thanks for your suggestions. I will ask a bodybuilder for a little advice too. I scoped out the progress pics and I know just who I'm going to ask.

I still can't get over how the heck you are curling 100+ for 4x6 reps with those size biceps lol . I have 16's and i can't curl that yet. HMM.

Oh and um, well I believe it is possible to add muscle and lose fat, but only under the right circumstances. For you, probably very possible since i bet your muscles were really underdeveloped and you had all that fat there to support muscle growth (the extra calories).

But as you get closer to your ideal weight, I don't think it's realistic to expect to lose fat and put muscle on.

40 lbs of lean mass during this process though seems very unlikely to me as well.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

Firehawk - I think I know why they do it - it is to look good. But I am not nearly big enough yet to tell any powerlifter that he looks bad.

Well, I mean you want muscle growth right? That's my whole point of telling you what the powerlifter said lol. He said that PL's are more heavily muscled, so why would you want to go to a BB routine if you can be more heavily muscled from PL routines? lol

[.V.]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

For you, probably very possible since i bet your muscles were really underdeveloped and you had all that fat there to support muscle growth (the extra calories).

Yeah, I didn't think of that - I was consuming 10 calories per gram of my own fat wasn't I. That's really gross, I'm a cannibal and didn't realize it. Thank you so much for pointing that out.

[Firehawk]

Originally Posted by a_welch503

Yeah, I didn't think of that - I was consuming 10 calories per gram of my own fat wasn't I. That's really gross, I'm a cannibal and didn't realize it. Thank you so much for pointing that out.

lol. I've never seen anyone eat more than I've eaten at one time man, so don't feel bad.

I used to get 3 super sized Mcdonald's combo meals all with double quarter pounders with cheese, and for the drinnk i'd get 3 huge triple thick shakes. I'd eat ALL of that at one time and drink 2 of the shakes, then about 1 hour later after the pain in my stomach went down a notch i'd drink the other shake LOL. That's easily 8000 calories.

I was so dumb.

I could eat 2 large pizzas easily and be hungry still.

[.V.]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Well, I mean you want muscle growth right? That's my whole point of telling you what the powerlifter said lol. He said that PL's are more heavily muscled, so why would you want to go to a BB routine if you can be more heavily muscled from PL routines? lol

Visible muscle growth - without getting any of the fat back. Then my family will stop calling me Skeletor and Ghandi.

[Firehawk]

YOu are probably going to gain some fat back, just make sure you realize that you are in control! Stop bulking at 15-20% and then cut back down if you want to . This is probably what I'm gonna do.

My body will add fat any chance it gets, so I'm gonna have the same problems.

[.V.]

Thanks to all for your suggestions. Special thanks to Todd for the PM explanation of MAX OT - I have read where so many of you are doing it and getting real results but never really understood it. I started today - to the best of my understanding of it. I will post everything I did today. After today I won't be posting the warm up and acclimation since MAX OT says they don't count, but I want to post them today to see if I am doing too much, not enough, or about right.

10-24-2004

Chest / Shoulders

Mil Press............60x1x10, 70x1x10, 80x1x8, 90x1x1, 95x2x4
Upright row........80x1x10, 90x1x8, 100x1x6, 110x1x1, 115x2x4
Bench Press......60x1x10, 80x1x10, 100x1x10, 140x1x1, 145x2x4
Shrugs (front)..145x1x10, 170x1x10, 180x1x8, 195x1x1, 205x2x4
Shrugs (back).........205x2x4
DB Press...............50x2x4


This is much faster than my old workout I was spending 2 1/2 hours. This only took 1 1/4 hours. Much of that time was wasted trying to figure out how much weight to use. I wonder if I should have warmed up for shrugs, or if the upright row counts as the shrug warmup. Another thing I wonder about why not just do one warm up set with 75% of the workout weight and then do one acclimation rep with 85-90% this would save time, but would it be enough of a warm up?

Whatever - even only doing 2 heavy sets instead of 4, I am totally whomped at the end of this. I was doing close to the right thing already - my maximum for 4 reps weight is not much more than my 6-8 rep weights.

[.V.]

10-25-2004

About 1 1/2 hours today - wasting time trying to find out how much weight I should use. Example: BB curls - I have been doing 110x4x6 so I thought that once I warmed up, did the acclimation rep, got rested and ready - that I would be able to do 115 or even 120 for 3x4. NOT. I could not even get 115 for two reps. So I will do the plan of doing 110x3x4 then 3x5 then 3x6 then increase the weight on schedule.

Here is what I did today - I am not posting warmups or acclimation sets.

Arms/Abs

BB Curls.............110x3x4
Skull Crushers........95x3x4
DB Curls..............50x3x4
Tate Press............50x3x4
Crunches..............85x3x4
Leg Raises............20x3x4
Tricep Pressdown......90x3x4

I have been doing high volume no weight leg raises. I'm going to treat the abs like any other muscle for a while and do the low volume with weight. MAX OT seems to reccomend higher volume than I did today - But with the 20 lb dumbell between my feet, 4 reps was all I could get. Without weight - 30 reps is easy.

Doing it this way, I was able to add weight to every exercise except BB curls. BTW skull crushers are aptly named if you try 100 when you should only be doing 95 - I found this out the hard way today. My curls are now standing alternating DB curls instead of the concentration DB curls that I have been doing - I would not have believed how much more I can feel them in the biceps by eliminating the isolation and moving more weight. I think I am going to like this lower volume - higher weight approach - I can feel the difference after one workout - even the lower part of my trapezius muscles are SORE today - I've NEVER felt them before no matter what I did so I think I made the right choice by starting this new plan yesterday.

[Todd]

Just make sure you rest well and eat your wheaties!!