Go Back   Discuss Fitness > Nutrition and Supplementation > Diet and Nutrition

Diet and Nutrition Discuss the best diets for both losing and gaining weight. Sub forum: Related Recipes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24-May-05, 08:56 PM   #61
Firehawk
PowerLifter
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Michigan
Age: 39
Posts: 7,270
Send a message via Yahoo to Firehawk
Come to think of it, if i limit my cheat day to a cheat meal, I'd probably drop another pound a week just from that. I go nuts sometimes. I get a 3000 calorie taco bell meal, then ice cream later, which is easily anotehr 2000 , then sometimes i'll get a pizza at night. That's another 3000. So total that up that's 8000 calories.

See last year i never had this trouble. I didnt' even bother counting the cheat day. I was losing 3 lbs a week and figured my body coudln't be storing all that crap. Well now maybe it's true. Maybe the closer i get to my ideal weight, the more likely it will be storing that crap...

It just sucks. It's easy to feel trapped.
__________________
"If you are genetically pre-desposed to having that "gap" as you call it then there isn't much you can do about it." -- F-mac (this can be applied to all of life's cracks or gaps)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-May-05, 09:37 PM   #62
Octagon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 55
Posts: 2,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk
It's true that if you were fat, and lost alot of weight, it's easier to gain it back.
Well, yes and no.

First, the ways in which that's true (ie the 'yes' part)...

The body burns and destroys fat similarly to the way it creates and destroys muscle. It doesn't take the whole cell right away. Rather, it empties the cell and leaves a shell and 'refilling' these empty cells is easier than creating new ones from scratch. That's why people who had large muscles in the recent past have a somewhat easier time getting back to where they are. It's also why people who've lost a lot of weight can add it back relatively quickly. These empty cells can, over time, be destroyed as well (and no, I'm not sure how much time that takes).

Regaining weight can also be easier for formerly obese people because we have really ****ty habits that are really easy to slide back into.

Here's the 'no' part and it's pretty important: you need 3500 surplus calories to gain a pound of fat and with VERY few exceptions that's true no matter how much or how little you weighed at various points in your life.

For the most part, all this talk of freakish metabolisms and genetics this and propensities that just serves to obscure a very important bottom line - people who don't take in more calories than they burn won't add fat - people who do take in more calories than they burn will add fat.

And here's another fairly important point for ya to ponder...even if people with some mythical 'skinny gene' did have it easier what the hell would that *really* matter to us?

It wouldn't change our situations in the least.

We'd still have to do whatever it is we have to do to get where we want to be.

So don't let crap like that take your eye off the ball.
Octagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-May-05, 09:39 PM   #63
.V.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk
That dont look like enough protein for me though. I probably need at least 300g.

And, i won't give up on anythng. One way or the other i'll be trying to alter my body, whether it be cutting or gaining muscle.
Then add more protien. I just wrote down what I ate. Make it work for you - if you need more have four sausages and eggs instead of two. Have two burgers instead of one. Whatever you need to make it work for you. Just remember to eat until satisfied not stuffed. But heck, you already know that or you wouldn't have done what you have so far.

Good job on not giving up - you have came too far already. You just were sounding a bit frustrated.

And as bad as I was, with the meager amount of muscle I was able to add, I'm certain that you can do even better since you have a stronger base to work from.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 05:25 AM   #64
Firehawk
PowerLifter
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Michigan
Age: 39
Posts: 7,270
Send a message via Yahoo to Firehawk
I'm starting back cutting today. Thanks all for the comments. We'll see what happens. I'm going to do my best to take a cheat "meal" for awhile, and then try to slowly pull away from it. Only way can do that is if i'm 100% focused, because it's just so hard. I ate like crap for too many years to just drop everything good.

And, if i wouldn't have been able to have that cheat day in the beginning, i probably wouldn't have lasted much past a couple weeks dieting like this..
__________________
"If you are genetically pre-desposed to having that "gap" as you call it then there isn't much you can do about it." -- F-mac (this can be applied to all of life's cracks or gaps)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 06:55 AM   #65
cursor
[ exSiteMgr ]
 
cursor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: lunar equator
Age: 65
Posts: 8,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk
I'm 280 lbs @ 30% bf and i train hard 4 days a week.
Would you be happy with a transition like this?
280-lbs @ 30% body-fat = 196-lbs LBM + 84-lbs fat
260-lbs @ 20% body-fat = 208-lbs LBM + 52-lbs fat
260-lbs @ 20% body-fat =
+ 12-lbs LBM 32-lbs fat
Gain 12-lbs of lean mass while losing 32-lbs of fat. I'll bet that you could do it in 16-20 weeks, given true focus and dedication.
__________________

Push your limits define aggressive goals
____________c u r s o r__
_________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cursor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 07:15 AM   #66
Klinger
Registered User
 
Klinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lancaster, PA
Age: 47
Posts: 2,096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk
What suggestions for getting rid of the cheat day? Instituting a cheat meal only?
You've documented your propensity for going overboard with the junk food, so this suggestion might not fly, but here goes:

Don't cut the bad stuff out completely. Incorporate it into your daily calorie intake. Last night, for example, I ate four small cookies from an Italian bakery that I love. I'll eat similar "junk foods" several times a week, but always in very small portions.

You have to learn control, which is a damn hard lesson, but if you do learn it, you never have to deprive yourself and you will continue to add muscle/lose fat.
__________________
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!
Klinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 07:36 AM   #67
cursor
[ exSiteMgr ]
 
cursor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: lunar equator
Age: 65
Posts: 8,001
I have to agree with Klinger. If you want seriously improved results, then the binging simply has to be reined in. 'Cheat days' can (and typically do) sacrifice the potential results of an otherwise quality plan. If you chose to have Pizza Hut pizza (for example), then
  1. 'When' needs to be a planned event
  2. 'How much' needs to be jive with your nutrition plan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk
MostMuscle, i've been cutting for 1 1/2 yrs and i'm honestly sick of it.
It's possible to reach your lower body-fat level within a reasonable time frame, but only if your plan is smart and you execute it with real focus and dedication. That's not to say that your fat-loss progress so far is not admirable!
__________________

Push your limits define aggressive goals
____________c u r s o r__
_________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by cursor; 25-May-05 at 07:45 AM.
cursor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 08:09 AM   #68
Firehawk
PowerLifter
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Michigan
Age: 39
Posts: 7,270
Send a message via Yahoo to Firehawk
Thanks Cursor and Klinger. Klinger, I relaly like your idea. Rather than getting a huge taco bell meal on saturday, maybe a couple days a week i should get like 3 tacos (about 500 calories), and then stop there. That should be enough to keep my cravings down.

Great ideas. Everyone has been very helpful. Yeah my fat loss to this point has been decent, but I always want more. I no doubt have proven i can do it, i just have to get the same determination back, which is coming back now. I'm feeling ready to go. Gearing up again for another 7 months and hopefully my last 7 months for awhile of cutting.
__________________
"If you are genetically pre-desposed to having that "gap" as you call it then there isn't much you can do about it." -- F-mac (this can be applied to all of life's cracks or gaps)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 08:19 AM   #69
maverick
missin the gym
 
maverick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Age: 37
Posts: 3,208
Hell, scrap the sour cream, get chicken instead of ground beef, and you can just call those 3 tacos a meal instead of a cheat. Granted, its not the best, but as far as unavoidable fast food goes, it could be worse. Or if you are gonna have that binge meal with tons of calories, just make sure that its the only one of the week. Convince yourself that a cheat meal = 1 unscheduled cardio session. But the catch is you must run it before! Works for me.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 09:01 AM   #70
Firehawk
PowerLifter
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Michigan
Age: 39
Posts: 7,270
Send a message via Yahoo to Firehawk
Bro, my cheat meals can easily add up to 4000 calories. One cardio session won't cut it LMAO.

I have to find a way to minimize it. Your chicken suggestion sounds good, that takes alot of fat out of the taco, as well as dropping the pure fat sour cream.

If i take a cheat meal, it'd likely be about 10 tacos, but if i changed to chicken and no sour cream, then the claories taken in is probably around 1500. That is manageable compared to the 4450 i take in now when i go to taco bell. I went on their website and used the nutrition calculator. YIKES!

I think a thing that will probably help me is to make sure i keep writing everything down, and before i eat that cheat meal, figure out about how much ive lost in calories for the week, and how much that cheat meal will set me back. If i've lost 7000 calories (2 lbs) over the last 6 days, and i am about to eat a 4000 calorie meal, maybe seeing that it's going to set me back to less than 1 lb for that week will be enough to curb my problem. I haven't tried.
__________________
"If you are genetically pre-desposed to having that "gap" as you call it then there isn't much you can do about it." -- F-mac (this can be applied to all of life's cracks or gaps)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 09:37 AM   #71
cursor
[ exSiteMgr ]
 
cursor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: lunar equator
Age: 65
Posts: 8,001
Quote:
Gearing up again for another 7 months and hopefully my last 7 months for awhile of cutting.
Why not cut it to three or (at most) four months by smartly modifying the way that you eat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk
Bro, my cheat meals can easily add up to 4000 calories.
Really ... you have to be kidding! Is there really any question why fat-loss progress is not what you'd like? Given your lifting intensity/volume/frequency, 1800 calories is starving yourself. Attempting to make up for it with 'cheat meals' (particularly those that pack-in 4000 calories) is very definitely counter-productive.
__________________

Push your limits define aggressive goals
____________c u r s o r__
_________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cursor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 09:53 AM   #72
Lady C
"I know squat"
 
Lady C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,657
Taco Bell Nutrition Info

Stick with the items on the top of this menu (<10 gms fat) and keep the quantity of them to a min <3. And yes, have your meal pre-calculated out BEFORE you enter the building and NEVER change your mind while you are there in front of the menu board.

That way you might not feel so compelled to have a 8000 calorie cheat day!

Last edited by Lady C; 25-May-05 at 09:55 AM.
Lady C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 10:00 AM   #73
cursor
[ exSiteMgr ]
 
cursor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: lunar equator
Age: 65
Posts: 8,001
In the words of a fellow powerlifter:
Finally, for you lifters who insist on getting massive between contests (massively fat, that is), I have only a couple of things to say:
  1. Change your slovenly ways ... bigger is only better if it's only muscle!
  2. If you don't change your ways, you'll never break into the winners' circle at Mount Olympus.
____Dr. Fredrick C. Hatfield, PhD

Who's Dr. Hatfield :: AKA Dr. Squat?
__________________

Push your limits define aggressive goals
____________c u r s o r__
_________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cursor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 11:48 AM   #74
Firehawk
PowerLifter
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Michigan
Age: 39
Posts: 7,270
Send a message via Yahoo to Firehawk
Quote:
Originally Posted by cursor
Why not cut it to three or (at most) four months by smartly modifying the way that you eat?

Really ... you have to be kidding! Is there really any question why fat-loss progress is not what you'd like? Given your lifting intensity/volume/frequency, 1800 calories is starving yourself. Attempting to make up for it with 'cheat meals' (particularly those that pack-in 4000 calories) is very definitely counter-productive.
I have eaten the same way the last 2 years, when i was 340, and when i was 270. No difference in cheat days, and was droppin 3 lbs a week for most of the year.

So you're saying if i were to increase daily amounts of calories and limit the cheat meals I'd be fine? I'd have to play with the numbers to see what happens.

I want more than 2 lbs a week ideally. Your suggestion to cut it to 3-4 months would be ideal if I could infact drop 60 lbs in that time, but it's unrealistic to think that I could. I'd LOVE to, believe me.
__________________
"If you are genetically pre-desposed to having that "gap" as you call it then there isn't much you can do about it." -- F-mac (this can be applied to all of life's cracks or gaps)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-May-05, 11:50 AM   #75
Firehawk
PowerLifter
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Michigan
Age: 39
Posts: 7,270
Send a message via Yahoo to Firehawk
Quote:
Originally Posted by cursor
In the words of a fellow powerlifter:
Finally, for you lifters who insist on getting massive between contests (massively fat, that is), I have only a couple of things to say:
  1. Change your slovenly ways ... bigger is only better if it's only muscle!
  2. If you don't change your ways, you'll never break into the winners' circle at Mount Olympus.
____Dr. Fredrick C. Hatfield, PhD

Who's Dr. Hatfield :: AKA Dr. Squat?
There are other reasons for being bigger. One reason is especially for benchers, it benefits them to have a thicker chest so that their range of motion is smaller. Some don't care if they're healthy or not, gotta keep that in mind.

Not all powerlifters are fat either. Gotta keep that in mind. Theres a couple shredded guys at my gym, theres also some with big bellies, and some that are probbaly around 20%.

It's all about what you want. I don't want to be fat. I doubt I'll be maintaining 10% bodyfat the rest of my life, but I'd like to get there at least once, and maybe stay under 20% while putting as much muscle on as i can. That is my goal.
__________________
"If you are genetically pre-desposed to having that "gap" as you call it then there isn't much you can do about it." -- F-mac (this can be applied to all of life's cracks or gaps)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
activity levels, anabolic state, bell pepper, body burns, body fat, body fat level, body mass, bodyfat level, bodyfat levels, bodyfat percentage, brown rice, building muscle, bulking cycle, burning fat, burns fat, cal diet, calorie count, calorie intake, calorie range, calories daily, carb meal, carb meals, carb shake, cardio training, cheat meal, cheat meals, chicken breast, clean calories, clean eating, clean food, clean foods, complex carb, complex carbs, cup fat, daily cal, daily caloric, daily calorie, daily calorie intake, daily intake, dietary fiber, eating clean, egg yolks, fast food, fat level, fat levels, fat loss, fewer calories, fibrous veggies, food choices, gain lean, gain muscle, gaining fat, gaining muscle, gaining weight, grain bread, gym equipment, ham raise, ham raises, heart rate, heavy bench, high fiber, high intensity, high intensity cardio, higher rep, hiit cardio, ice cream, ideal weight, intense workout, junk food, junk foods, lean body, lean body mass, lean mass, lean muscle, lean muscle mass, lean protein, lose body, lose body fat, losing fat, losing weight, low carb, low glycemic, low intensity cardio, lower intensity, mass gain, meal timing, minimal fat, mostly fat, muscle gain, muscle growth, muscle loss, muscle mass, muscles grow, protein intake, protein powder, protein shake, pure protein, quality food, rack pull, rack pulls, reverse hypers, rice cakes, scale weight, short period, still eat, stop eating, store fat, strength gain, strength gains, strict diet, taco bell, weight class, weight gain, weight gainer, weight training, wheat bread, workout meal


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Sponsor Our Community

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 PM.


vBulletin ©2004 Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2004 DiscussFitness.com