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Old 12-Nov-05, 01:05 AM   #31
KaiserSose
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Steve,

Just because someone isn't physically fit per say, doesn't mean that they are unqualified to dispense advice. People don't have to put into pratice their knowledge. You can't use physical shape as an indicator of who's qualified to give advice, and who's not. A person may be genetically gifted, or, be in great shape due to athletics. That doesn't mean that they know the proper diet to spur the gain of muscle mass. By that same logic, a person may be grossly obese, yet, know infinitely more on nutrition than the person who is in shape; they just choose not to apply that knowledge to their life.
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Old 12-Nov-05, 02:18 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiserSose
Steve,

Just because someone isn't physically fit per say, doesn't mean that they are unqualified to dispense advice. People don't have to put into pratice their knowledge. You can't use physical shape as an indicator of who's qualified to give advice, and who's not. A person may be genetically gifted, or, be in great shape due to athletics. That doesn't mean that they know the proper diet to spur the gain of muscle mass. By that same logic, a person may be grossly obese, yet, know infinitely more on nutrition than the person who is in shape; they just choose not to apply that knowledge to their life.
I fully agree with this statement...

While your posts show that you are intelligent I'm a little lost as to why you were so defensive in the first place.

As for advice, 400 grams of protein seems to be pushing it. Start lower and work it up in my opinion until you find a good range so that you don't end up becoming a fat ass like i did during my last bulk. The carbs seem a bit too low, also.

Going to your fitness stats. I would try to concentrate a little more on pullups. Maybe thats just cause im a wrestler but when you do only 9 pullups but 80 pushups it seems like an imbalance to me.

Last edited by DaRkAnGel; 12-Nov-05 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 12-Nov-05, 05:50 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiserSose
Steve,

Just because someone isn't physically fit per say, doesn't mean that they are unqualified to dispense advice. People don't have to put into pratice their knowledge. You can't use physical shape as an indicator of who's qualified to give advice, and who's not. A person may be genetically gifted, or, be in great shape due to athletics. That doesn't mean that they know the proper diet to spur the gain of muscle mass. By that same logic, a person may be grossly obese, yet, know infinitely more on nutrition than the person who is in shape; they just choose not to apply that knowledge to their life.
well while you are 100% true, this is still a random discussion forum on the internet, meaning 90% of people are unqualified to give advice. that being said, i need to cancel people out as thoroughly as possible if i expect to get any sort of reliable advice. while an overweight person may be qualified to give fitness advice, its usually not the case. that being said, im not really willing to take internet advice from this type of person when im already being told contrary by someone officially educated in the field who already shows the results i want. like i said originally though, there are out of shape people who are qualified, but i think most can agree pretty easily that its usually not the case.
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Old 12-Nov-05, 05:53 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkAnGel
I fully agree with this statement...

While your posts show that you are intelligent I'm a little lost as to why you were so defensive in the first place.

As for advice, 400 grams of protein seems to be pushing it. Start lower and work it up in my opinion until you find a good range so that you don't end up becoming a fat ass like i did during my last bulk. The carbs seem a bit too low, also.

Going to your fitness stats. I would try to concentrate a little more on pullups. Maybe thats just cause im a wrestler but when you do only 9 pullups but 80 pushups it seems like an imbalance to me.
my 9 pull-ups are dead hangs. most people do consistent pull-ups without dead-hanging and waiting a second. if i pump them out and allow my body to swing with it just a little bit i can pump out about 15. mine are started at a dead hang where you pull up to above chin and hold for about 1.5-2 seconds then drop down and hang for 1.5-2 seconds. the pulling up and letting down motions are very controlled as well. this is done to make sure there is 0 cheating or finagling involved to get an extra rep out of myself. im ok with taking some of your advice because i remember you (and i believe kitara was the other female) from when i was on here about 2 years ago or so. prob close to 3 now.
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Old 12-Nov-05, 06:46 AM   #35
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I did some searching on the forum and found a topic that Todd addressed when someone asked about the Max-OT dieting and the unusually high amount of protein intake. I'm quoting it below;

Quote:
Ok, I am going to lay it out for ya here....


The reason why Max OT recommends so much protein is because if you are training Max OT style to the "T", then you will be putting your muscular system (as well as CNS) at very high stress levels. In order to recuperate fully from the extremes of Max OT training and to provide your body with enough nutrients to reap the benefits of getting the most from your training, they recommend taking in a lot more protein than the normal recomendations you'd find anywhere else.

So, in other words, the harder you train and the more stimulation and total muscle breakdown you inflict upon your body, the more protein (the major tool for growing new muscle) you'll need to take in.

Now, remember.... Max OT's nutrient calculators are JUST A GUIDELINE to get you on your way. Their just an estimation, not an exact figure. The only way to find your exact nutrient intake is to start with a guideline (like Max OT's) and then tweak things till you find the correct amount of protein, carbs and fat intake for YOUR physique. This takes some trial and error, so best to keep a log and make changes as you see fit along the way.
with this new light shed to the topic (and reaffirming what I thought all along) I'm going to do exactly as he says. I'll start off with what AST recommends and as I see results I will adjust to accordingly. stay tuned... Stevie has over $1500 worth of AST products to consume over the next 3 months.
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Old 12-Nov-05, 07:25 AM   #36
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Cool go for it. It's a waste of protien though i'm telling ya. I know from PAST EXPERIENCE, that i've put on muscle taking in about 300g of protein a day and I have twice the lean mass you have buddy.

Have at it though.

Also per that logic, since I powerlift and my workouts could be considered even more intense than MAX OT, i should require even MORE protein.

I believe the calculator told me i needed over 500g a day. I ain't on drugs which would be the only time i'd take in that much. The body just can't synthesize it fast enough so you waste it. Sounds like money might be no object to you though.

Keep us posted :
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Last edited by Firehawk; 12-Nov-05 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 12-Nov-05, 07:30 AM   #37
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Correction, it says i should be taking in 600+ protein, around 500 carbs, and about 80 fat. lol

This is without asking for body fat composition. SOrry, it's not that accurate.
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Old 12-Nov-05, 08:05 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk
Sounds like money might be no object to you though.

Keep us posted :
good guess, you are exactly right. ill keep you posted as well.
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Old 17-Nov-05, 01:20 PM   #39
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Jeez, how did I miss this fireball of a conversation?! Steve, I understand your position. If I were you, I'd want to take advice from people who are my gender, age, build, and look like I wanna look. But don't get abrasive right off the bat. This is a pretty tight-knit community of people who keep each other in check constantly. Just chek out any thread comparing powerliftng and bodybuilding, or low volme workouts vs. high volume. Very little BS slips through.

Yeah, 3norns doesn't look like your normal fitness instrcutor, but she knows her sh!t. And yeah, we don't agree on everything, but what's the point of a forum if we do? Obviously, if the people here who do look like you want to look respect her opinion, maybe you should too.

As for the whole protein issue, I'd agree with Firehawk, its a waste. Get more carbs so you can push more weight. For someone who prides himself on finding only the legit information on the internet, you sure are following that routine/diet blindly.
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Old 22-Jan-06, 09:25 AM   #40
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Anyone who recommends that much protein and that little fat is a fool.
There is no way you need all that. Remember each 100g of muscle you gain is only 30g of protein. There is no way you need all that.
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Last edited by Maxgain; 23-Jan-06 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 24-Jan-06, 09:06 PM   #41
steve2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxgain
Anyone who recommends that much protein and that little fat is a fool.
There is no way you need all that. Remember each 100g of muscle you gain is only 30g of protein. There is no way you need all that.
wow, a guy that replies to a 1-2 month old dead topic thinks that SOMEONE ELSE is stupid. oh wait, not just anyone... a person with a PhD and 10+ years experience in professional sports.
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Old 25-Jan-06, 12:24 AM   #42
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since this thread is back up, how is your progress steve?
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Old 26-Jan-06, 09:41 PM   #43
steve2000
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Originally Posted by bryan182
since this thread is back up, how is your progress steve?
i had to go off for a bit because of a job offer and change in employment. i had to leave town for some minor training and now ive got initial goals to meet that are requiring me to work quite a bit (but the bonus will make it worth it). before that i was seeing pretty phenominal results. shortly after making my post i invested in a medical scale (the little sliding weight scale you see in doctors offices and gyms, etc) and it said i was 159lbs, a bit under what i had expected. i am now 173lbs. i also invested in fat calipers and ive gone from somewhere around 10.5% body fat to somewhere around 9.5% body fat. ive gained alot of definition in my back and put on serious mass in my legs. my 45 degree leg press was an embarrassing 270lbs and is now a nice 390lbs. ive gained some nice lumps on my legs that werent there before and theyre pretty massive (fill out my boxers alot more) in comparison to before. my calves are still kinda small, i think thats a genetic thing though. my boobs are a bit bigger and i can flex-bounce them a bit more aggressively than before. im dissapointed though since my forarms are the same size and i havent seen any gain there and my curls are about the same as well (and triceps). id like to see some better gains in my stomach, while ive got good definition going from lack of body fat (and the fact that im young so my skin is still pretty tight and hasnt loosened up yet with age) my stomach muscles arent nearly big enough so im not sporting a 6-pack yet. i attribute that to the fact that my right elbow hurts really bad when i try to hold weight behind my head to do crunches and im struggling to do any crunches because of it (tossing the weight on my chest in the end and not getting nearly as much of a workout from it). im very VERY happy with my results so far and ive been getting alot of compliments. so much so that im getting ready to purchase a new DSLR camera to take progressive pics with.
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Old 13-Feb-06, 11:20 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve2000
wow, a guy that replies to a 1-2 month old dead topic thinks that SOMEONE ELSE is stupid. oh wait, not just anyone... a person with a PhD and 10+ years experience in professional sports.
Oh sorry my bad I did not realise there was a time limit to responding to posts. I admit i did not read the site rules very intricately on joining.
Also had i know your advice came from someone with a PhD and a full 10 plus years training experience i would never of dared to contradict.

However if you would be so kind as to ask this person to point you in the way of one approved scientific study where gretaer than 1g/lb of protein was shown to be more benificial or one on the benefits of a tesosterone hindering low fat diet. Well that would be just super for all us uneducated disillusional yet surprisingly successful training folks.

Thanks
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Old 13-Feb-06, 11:21 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve2000
wow, a guy that replies to a 1-2 month old dead topic thinks that SOMEONE ELSE is stupid. oh wait, not just anyone... a person with a PhD and 10+ years experience in professional sports.
Oh sorry my bad I did not realise there was a time limit to responding to posts. I admit i did not read the site rules very intricately on joining.
Also had i know your advice came from someone with a PhD and a full 10 plus years training experience i would never of dared to contradict.

However if you would be so kind as to ask this person to point you in the way of one approved scientific study where gretaer than 1g/lb of protein was shown to be more benificial or one on the benefits of a tesosterone hindering low fat diet. Well that would be just super for all us uneducated disillusional yet surprisingly successful training folks.

Thanks
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