Go Back   Discuss Fitness > Fitness > Sports Training

Sports Training Learn and share advice specific to sports such as boxing, football, basketball, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 13-Feb-07, 12:32 PM   #1
trainerty
Registered User
 
trainerty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa fl
Posts: 414
Sprints into Squats

I have started down a sprinting venture for a month or so now. I'm finding issues with finding a field and the quality of the field I find. I read a pretty cool study outlining the the similar oxidative and anaerobic effects of medium distance sprinting (10 seconds) and barbell squats (with tempo RM and reps to equal the workload of sprints.)
My dilemma....WHAT THE HELL IS THE SQUAT WORKLOAD?!!? Or at least, how would someone figure out how much squatting he/she should do to get the same effect as sprints.
If you guys/gals have input please dish it out.

*Today it's raining and I'm going to sub squats for my sprints. I will try something like 30-40%RM for half squats (approx 90 degrees give or take). I'll do it for about 45 sec to 1 minute. I'll rest for 90 sec. (for partial lactic acid clearing) and hit it again. I think I will try for 6-10 sets (depending on how much I can take without over doing it.)

What do you all think?
__________________
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of GIANTS"
Sir Isaac Newton


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


trainerty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Feb-07, 01:55 PM   #2
gymgirl
Site Moderator
 
gymgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: seattle
Age: 38
Posts: 2,768
huh, very interesting. the only kind of squats i would imagine could get the same effects of sprinting is tabata squats.

i think your plan for today sounds interesting. if you remember please post your thoughts post workout, I'd love to know how they compare. have fun!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The sign of a good WOD. Immediate reflection that you don't want to do it again any time soon."—pierini
gymgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-Feb-07, 02:37 PM   #3
trainerty
Registered User
 
trainerty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa fl
Posts: 414
I did consider Tabata Method. It doesn't seemingly quite fit my training endeavors (at least not at this stage). Tabata would cause too much lactic acid buildup too quick. It would surely cause my form for the final sets to fall apart quickly. IMO- I think Tabata method taxes the alactic energy system and aerobic recovery the hardest.

I hit the gym for about 25 minutes (including warmup, squats, and cooldown). I worked with 6 sets. It look something like this:
155x45sec
45sec rest
155x45sec
45sec rest
155x45sec
1min rest
135x45sec
1min rest
135x45sec
45sec rest
135x40sec

10 min low impact treadmill walk

My legs felt like jelly the first part of the treadmill walk. Right now, they seem fine. I was able to go to a 90 degree knee bend every rep.

Driving to the gym, I debated how close I should get to simulating sprinting (explosive reps, breathing etc.). I theorize that a sprint is to explosive and maximized load wise to attempt to truly simulate with some type of squat.
SO, I decided to let the tut sub for the max load/velocity of a sprint. Also, allow the increased range of motion sub for the sprints short but eccentrically demanding ground force contact and reaction time.

I'm still figuring out stuff with this individually, BUT I kind of hypothesize this::confused:

30 sec sprint = 2 minute of squat with 30%RM
20 sec sprint = 1.5 minute of squat with 35%RM
10 sec sprint = 1 minute of squat with 40%RM

every 10 sec = 1/2 a minute (with my endurance)
since time reduction calls for faster speed...5-10%load increase should suffice.

Still playing with it in case it rains me out again and I'm stuck doing squats.
__________________
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of GIANTS"
Sir Isaac Newton


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


trainerty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Feb-07, 08:53 AM   #4
seraphyne1
Registered User
 
seraphyne1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 975
As you are going to a gym and have access to a treadmill, why don't you do a combination workout of treadmill and bwe squats. Squats are done in tabate protocol, that means 20 secs work followed by 10 secs rest.

So five rounds of tabata like squats is 5 times 20 secs squats followed by 10 secs rest.

The workout to be done:
- 5 rounds tabata like squats
- 2 minutes on the treadmill
- 4 rounds tabata like squats
- 2 minutes on the treadmill
- 3 rounds tabata like squats
- 2 minutes on the treadmill
- 2 rounds tabata like squats
- 2 minutes on the treadmill
- 1 rounds tabata like squats
- 2 minutes on the treadmill

Start at a running speed that makes you breath hard and over time try to run faster. This way you get the best of both worlds. If at one point you will find a running track you can replace the 2 minute run by 400 metres run.
seraphyne1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Feb-07, 01:10 PM   #5
trainerty
Registered User
 
trainerty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa fl
Posts: 414
That's interesting....:

However, the loss of recovery time would simply cause the extreme acidosis that Tabata is known for.....perhaps if a break was placed in between the squats and treadmill, it may help. Also, I simply hate running on treadmills. The wear and tear on the knees is too much for my battered down joints.

BW squats is too easy off the back. I can probably go to 200 squats without need of rest. Perhaps jumping squats...

I'll kick the idea around a bit.
__________________
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of GIANTS"
Sir Isaac Newton


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


trainerty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Feb-07, 10:09 PM   #6
pierini
Banned
 
pierini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by trainerty
Also, I simply hate running on treadmills. The wear and tear on the knees is too much for my battered down joints.
That's interesting because I do most of my running on the treadmill to be kind and gentle to my old knees. I find it much more friendly that hitting the streets.

Different strokes for different folks.
pierini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Feb-07, 04:08 AM   #7
seraphyne1
Registered User
 
seraphyne1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 975
You should see the running as a kind of active rest, also you get short rest periods. The point for sprinting is this lactate thresshold build up. I agree with pierini, that running on a treadmill is much softer for knees and ligaments and I can know that as I have had torn knee ligaments. If I run on a hard surface (including track) I get severe pain in my knee to the point I can't barely walk without pain but on a treadmill I can run. I personally just gave up as I think for me personal there are more fun stuff for endurance than running.

If you have joint trouble on a treadmill it might be wise to let someone check you running style. Either you have a bad running style or you are too heavy for running. Than it might be wiser to chose another option like a bike.

But on the other hand, maybe it is like Pierini said, different strokes for different folks. You are your own best judge as you know your own body best. Just take care and enjoy.

p.s. you mention that you can do 200 bwe reps without any problem. Than why bother with the rest as you should be in a decent shape than. 200 reps (full motion to the bottom, not the parallel version) should take about 6 minutes do be done. Also take a look at scrapper's reverse squats where you start at the bottom and raise about 3/4 and do it at high speed.
seraphyne1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Feb-07, 06:11 AM   #8
minime
I need a title!
 
minime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,326
I don't understand do you mean you went into the squat and stayed down there for 45 seconds? I've never heard of weighted barbell squats to replace sprints, it just doesnt make much sense...

If you can do 200 squats easily without break, then do 300. Then do some more.

or how about 100 rep squats with a light weight like 65lbs or something.

As for the knees hurting on treadmills : this makes no sense either as it is concrete that is damaging to run on, the soft treadmill pad is kinder on the knees than the outside pavement. Track surfaces I don't know, they are cushioned to be lighter on the knees arent they?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
minime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Feb-07, 06:11 AM   #9
minime
I need a title!
 
minime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,326
or try 100 rep jumping squat with a 45lb bar on your back.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
minime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Feb-07, 10:14 AM   #10
trainerty
Registered User
 
trainerty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa fl
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierini
That's interesting because I do most of my running on the treadmill to be kind and gentle to my old knees. I find it much more friendly that hitting the streets.

Different strokes for different folks.
I agree that a treadmill is much more forgiving than a street surface. Let me try to explain my reasoning a little more:

I do not run on hard pavements. I do not run in a slow cadence (jogging). I sprint on level (hopefully level) grass fields. I do sprint instead of jogging because there is less TUT on the joints. Also, generally speaking, (IMO) man is built mechanically for speed not long duration of jogging.
__________________
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of GIANTS"
Sir Isaac Newton


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


trainerty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Feb-07, 10:33 AM   #11
trainerty
Registered User
 
trainerty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa fl
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by seraphyne1
You should see the running as a kind of active rest, also you get short rest periods. The point for sprinting is this lactate thresshold build up. I agree with pierini, that running on a treadmill is much softer for knees and ligaments and I can know that as I have had torn knee ligaments. If I run on a hard surface (including track) I get severe pain in my knee to the point I can't barely walk without pain but on a treadmill I can run. I personally just gave up as I think for me personal there are more fun stuff for endurance than running.

If you have joint trouble on a treadmill it might be wise to let someone check you running style. Either you have a bad running style or you are too heavy for running. Than it might be wiser to chose another option like a bike.

But on the other hand, maybe it is like Pierini said, different strokes for different folks. You are your own best judge as you know your own body best. Just take care and enjoy.

p.s. you mention that you can do 200 bwe reps without any problem. Than why bother with the rest as you should be in a decent shape than. 200 reps (full motion to the bottom, not the parallel version) should take about 6 minutes do be done. Also take a look at scrapper's reverse squats where you start at the bottom and raise about 3/4 and do it at high speed.
I see your point. However, I have an actual specific goal to gain from this training. I should have explained this to give everyone a better picture. At this phase, I want to build up my lactic energy system and increase tolerance for high levels. I do not care for getting the most blood/fat oxidation possible.... nor do I wish to push myself so far that I am at my "critical" point and eyeball deep in acidosis (as with Tabata).

IMO and with some reading and observing: To get the effects I desire I will need to sprint for long bouts (20 sec-2min). I will need to be able to match performance or come close to matching it each time....so I will need partial to full rest breaks (1-5 min).

It is pretty important that speed remains high so resting should be non active.

So, my needs are different than most, but if I can increase my efficiency with dealing with acidosis. I will be able to blow through prior strength and endurance PR (hopefully).

I'm pretty good with my technique with sprints. I do dynamic warmups and orchestrate my strength workouts around the mechanics of a sprint (build them glutes)

I will post my workout up and get some critiques fom you all. This is a smart crowd so it should be interesting.
__________________
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of GIANTS"
Sir Isaac Newton


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


trainerty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Feb-07, 10:39 AM   #12
trainerty
Registered User
 
trainerty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa fl
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by minime
I don't understand do you mean you went into the squat and stayed down there for 45 seconds? I've never heard of weighted barbell squats to replace sprints, it just doesnt make much sense...

If you can do 200 squats easily without break, then do 300. Then do some more.

or how about 100 rep squats with a light weight like 65lbs or something.

As for the knees hurting on treadmills : this makes no sense either as it is concrete that is damaging to run on, the soft treadmill pad is kinder on the knees than the outside pavement. Track surfaces I don't know, they are cushioned to be lighter on the knees arent they?
No, I did squats for :45 sec per set. Actual tut was approx. 4-0-1. The squats could never be an exact copy of a sprint. You should keep in mind all a squat is....is a repeated one legged squat (and hop).

I live near Univ. of Tampa. They have a GREAT new rubber track. The only problem ....they have boosted their security and I can't get anywhere near it without a student id and appointment . I'll stick with soft grass for now.
__________________
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of GIANTS"
Sir Isaac Newton


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


trainerty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Feb-07, 10:41 AM   #13
trainerty
Registered User
 
trainerty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa fl
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by minime
or try 100 rep jumping squat with a 45lb bar on your back.
I might give that a whirl in the future. It might be smarter to switch to jumping squats anyway.
__________________
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of GIANTS"
Sir Isaac Newton


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


trainerty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Feb-07, 10:52 AM   #14
trainerty
Registered User
 
trainerty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tampa fl
Posts: 414
My legs are a bit sore today (especially VL sides). Hopefully, there are no more rain days on my spritn days. I'm just going to outline what I'll be doing today. I WILL post my full routine soon (hopefully it will clear things up):

Sprints:
Warmup drills (a-skips/karoake/heel walks/acceleration drills etc.) (5minute rest after)
Lactic Acid Tolerance Training:
7x20sec sprints (30 sec rest break in between sprints)
2x50sec sprints (90 sec rest break in between sprints)

Active Recovery Aerobic training:
10 min walk around area.
__________________
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of GIANTS"
Sir Isaac Newton


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


trainerty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Feb-07, 10:56 AM   #15
minime
I need a title!
 
minime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,326
trainerty : i dont think you could count mr. P as a jogger lol.

I've never sprinted on grass but i would assume that it is much more forgiving than concrete. I sprint on the track, and I run on the treadmill. I used to run longer distances outside a lot, but then i began to experience knee issues and I havent done that in a long time.

Wheter or not man was built for speed or run duration : i prefer speed these days as i do not wish to spend an hour jogging due to boredom mainly! Also sprinting can be better tied into bodybuilding goals than jogging can.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
minime is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
active recovery, aerobic training, barbell squat, barbell squats, box squats, five rounds, heavy squats, high level, high levels, higher intensity, interval training, light weight, low impact, speed squats, strength train, strength training



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Sponsor Our Community

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 AM.


vBulletin ©2004 Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2004 DiscussFitness.com